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Where do you stand on this issue? Who should train the National Guard to carry concealed - the military, NRA or the police? Interesting article nevertheless.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/08/22/nra-instructing-indiana-national-guard-on-firearms/?intcmp=hplnws

INDIANAPOLIS - The National Rifle Association has been instructing Indiana's National Guard members on how to use concealed weapons after Republican Gov. Mike Pence directed the state's military bases and training centers to beef up security in response to recent attacks in Tennessee.

According to a survey by The Associated Press, Indiana is the only state to enlist the NRA's help in the training, which the gun-rights group says it will conduct free of charge for any guardsman who wants to carry a concealed handgun. Although National Guard members traditionally have not been allowed to carry weapons while conducting most stateside duties, Pence is one of 14 governors who decided to arm them in the wake of a gunman's attacks last month on two U.S. military sites in Chattanooga that left four Marines dead.

Gun control advocates argue it's inappropriate for a state to involve a political lobbying organization in training members of the military, and even some National Guard officials from states that allow guardsmen to carry weapons question why a civilian organization is needed. "This is a military problem to deal with, so we're going to deal with it with the military," said Lt. Col. Joel Lynch, a spokesman for the Arkansas National Guard, which is handling the training of its Guard members itself.

As governor, Pence has wide-ranging powers over the Indiana National Guard and appoints the adjutant general who oversees operations. Pence spokeswoman Kara Brooks declined to comment and directed inquiries to the Indiana National Guard. Guard spokeswoman Lt. Col. Cathy Van Bree said guard instructors have previously offered handgun instruction themselves but that Pence's executive order last month allowing guardsmen to be armed requires a "deeper level of training." She did not elaborate.

In order to be armed, a guardsman must have a valid conceal-carry permit and undergo training. Van Bree declined to say how many members have been approved to be armed.

Guy Relford, an NRA instructor who recently trained about 65 Indiana guardsmen at an armory in Franklin, said his "basic pistol" course delves into safety scenarios on when and when not to shoot.

Without training, the National Guard has "dramatically increased the possibility that someone could hurt themselves or others with a gun" Relford said.

The AP survey of the 14 states that have armed their National Guards shows that most states had members of the military or law enforcement conduct the training. Only Indiana, Arkansas, Florida, Kentucky and Oklahoma said they allow guardsmen to carry concealed weapons. At least seven others - including the largest state of California - allow Guard members to carry weapons in plain sight. Officials in Alabama declined to release information about their firearms rules for guardsmen, while the Texas National Guard wouldn't say if concealed handguns were allowed.

"The fact is, our folks are very comfortable in using weapons and using discernment in when they use those weapons, so having an outside agency involved is a little bit of a surprise," Capt. Will Martin, a spokesman for the California National Guard, said of Indiana's policy.

Eric Dietz, a professor at Purdue University who studies homeland security issues, said his research suggests causalities in some active shooter situations could be reduced if someone, such as a guardsman, has a concealed handgun.

Although more known for its role as an advocacy group, the NRA also frequently conducts handgun training programs for civilians. Relford says most Guard members don't get pistol training from the military, and those who do are taught using the standard 9mm. Pence's policy applies to a vast array of firearms ranging from a .22-caliber up to a .357 Magnum.

There are also legal and philosophical considerations because the military's overarching focus is on threats abroad, not at home, which is the traditional role of law enforcement.

Allowing different states to adopt different training methods also goes against the grain of military orthodoxy.

"You don't want to have the Indiana National Guardsmen trained a certain way that may be different from Illinois or Kentucky. There does have to be a standard across the board," said David Harris, a former adjutant general of the Illinois National Guard and now a Republican legislator, who supports the idea of arming guardsmen.

The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence criticized Pence for recruiting the NRA, suggesting the organization is "first and foremost" a "lobbying organization."

"There is no institution better equipped to train our servicemen and women than the US military itself," Dan Gross, the Brady Campaigns president said. "This is not a job for lobbyists."

In a statement responding to the Brady Campaign, NRA spokesman Jeremy Greene said the training offered to the Guard was provided by the NRA Foundation, which is separate from the group's lobbying wing.

Robert Dion a professor of political science at the University of Evansville, said Pence could reap political benefits in his upcoming re-election campaign by reaching out to the NRA in pro-gun Indiana.

"Any sort of association with the NRA helps his reputation more than it hurts it," Dion said. "You can burnish your social conservative credentials by cozying up to the NRA and you can claim being fiscally responsible because you are not costing tax payers anything."
 

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I thought National Guard being Military were already qualified. Just remember the Ohio State fiasco. "Four dead in O..Hio......Four dead in O.....Hio"
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I thought National Guard being Military were already qualified. Just remember the Ohio State fiasco. "Four dead in O..Hio......Four dead in O.....Hio"
Apparently it is different state to state.
 

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I thought National Guard being Military were already qualified. Just remember the Ohio State fiasco. "Four dead in O..Hio......Four dead in O.....Hio"
Really - bringing up Kent State?
What role will they be expected to be using their skill as - a civilian (personal defense), a soldier or some kind of law enforcement? The training should fit the apllication.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Really - bringing up Kent State?
What role will they be expected to be using their skill as - a civilian (personal defense), a soldier or some kind of law enforcement? The training should fit the apllication.
As I said, it is an interesting article which initiated quite a bit of discussion between me and my hubby. I always thought that the training they received was from the military. I guess I was wrong.
 

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Wow, where to begin. Harris claims that differing standards between State Guards is inconsistent with military doctrine. Well, State a Guards are technically state employees and are not formally considered military unless federalized. As an example, after 9/11 there were elements of the NY Guard who were mobilized, armed and ordered to secure perimeters and provide security around lower Manhattan. These troops were not recognized as military and even under presumptive illnesses related to Ground Zero, they are not considered military. They receive their benefits (very few) through NYS Workers Comp.
States are supposed to have the right and authority to act independently of the federal government, why should this be different?
Despite my statements above, these are people who have raised their hands and sworn to protect us. They are well trained and well screened. How dare we, or any state deny them the right to protect themselves (and others) while serving.
A very high number of Guardsmen and women are actually full time LEO's who, ironically, are denied their ability to carry while wearing the uniform of their state WITH AN AMERICAN FLAG ON THEIR SLEEVE.
Is NRA the right choice? I don't know. Why don't we allow the individual states decide that.
As far as NRA being a lobbying entity, so what. How many other organizations engage or influence trying of our government employees and also engage in political lobbying? Silly argument, the fact that the Brady group is making the noise over it is comical. They lobby, influence policy AND influence who and how many things are disseminated to government employees.
How about Unions? Even LE Unions provide trainings in many areas.
More power to the governors who have shown themselves intelligent and courageous enough to recognize the need for uniformed personnel to be armed.
 

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There is nothing wrong with the NRA training the guard to carry concealed. The NRA trains most CCW in the country. Why should the organized militia not receive the same CCW training as most of their fellow citizens do?
 

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I have no problem the NRA stepping up.

Ideally they would get the feds to train the NG. Probably the most qualified and can transfer the best skill set. After that the Mil (if they have the infrastructure- doubt it), local PD and last the NRA. I say that as an NRA certified instructor that is very familiar with training and qualification at each level with a handgun.
 

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There is nothing wrong with the NRA training the guard to carry concealed. The NRA trains most CCW in the country. Why should the organized militia not receive the same CCW training as most of their fellow citizens do?
Since they have offered to do the training at no cost it takes some of the pressure away for Guard Unit budgets. It would frighten you to know how many water down their training because they are not budgeted money for little things like fuel, equipment and ammo.
 

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I thought National Guard being Military were already qualified. Just remember the Ohio State fiasco. "Four dead in O..Hio......Four dead in O.....Hio"
Yeah, throwing rocks and bottles at national guard troops was a peaceful demonstration.
I see you buy into the BS of the left on that situation.

We were trained in such a riot condition to fix bayonets, leave the metal sheath on and attack in formation
But the Guard isn't that well trained.
The blame however for Kent State goes first and foremost to the rioting hippy idiots.
Second to the officers leading it but make no mistake, the hippy doucherangers caused the problem
Don't want to get shot? Don't attack armed soldiers. What a crazy concept.

I always love that song though. "Tin soldiers and Nixon's coming..."
As if Nixon started the Vietnam war. That was Johnson all the way. The Democrat progressive Great Society Douche.
Kennedy would never had escalated it from a special forces intervention in most military historians opinions.
 

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Yeah, throwing rocks and bottles at national guard troops was a peaceful demonstration.
I see you buy into the BS of the left on that situation.

We were trained in such a riot condition to fix bayonets, leave the metal sheath on and attack in formation
But the Guard isn't that well trained.
The blame however for Kent State goes first and foremost to the rioting hippy idiots.
Second to the officers leading it but make no mistake, the hippy doucherangers caused the problem
Don't want to get shot? Don't attack armed soldiers. What a crazy concept.

I always love that song though. "Tin soldiers and Nixon's coming..."
As if Nixon started the Vietnam war. That was Johnson all the way. The Democrat progressive Great Society Douche.
Kennedy would never had escalated it from a special forces intervention in most military historians opinions.
Mind you I was only a teenager when we got into Vietnam but wasn't the idea to stop the spread of Chinese imperialism that fueled the North Vietnamese ? Just when did it start to be ok for us to ship jobs over to China and end up owing them billions ? Seems to me a lot of American blood got spilled for no reason. What we have done is a shame, an outrage to those that marched into battle and laid down thier lives all to save a few bucks buying Chinese crap. Overall I think Trump is koo koo for Coco Puffs but on this issue he is spot on.
 

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Mind you I was only a teenager when we got into Vietnam but wasn't the idea to stop the spread of Chinese imperialism that fueled the North Vietnamese ? Just when did it start to be ok for us to ship jobs over to China and end up owing them billions ? Seems to me a lot of American blood got spilled for no reason. What we have done is a shame, an outrage to those that marched into battle and laid down thier lives all to save a few bucks buying Chinese crap. Overall I think Trump is koo koo for Coco Puffs but on this issue he is spot on.
It wasn't for no good reason. We broke the Soviet Union. It was cumulative. The space race, defense spending, it all added up.

The reason we send jobs to commie China is due to unions, taxes and a myriad of permits and regulations here in the US.
 

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Mind you I was only a teenager when we got into Vietnam but wasn't the idea to stop the spread of Chinese imperialism that fueled the North Vietnamese ? Just when did it start to be ok for us to ship jobs over to China and end up owing them billions ? Seems to me a lot of American blood got spilled for no reason. What we have done is a shame, an outrage to those that marched into battle and laid down thier lives all to save a few bucks buying Chinese crap. Overall I think Trump is koo koo for Coco Puffs but on this issue he is spot on.
It was really part of the Cold war. Which goes back to WWII which goes back to WW I depending on how you wish to look at cause and effect.
It is true that the anti war sentiment was highly funded by the Soviet Union and most of the university types that started protesting were communists but they tapped into the youth really well .
Probably the only things the communists did really well. that and genocide of course.

Getting back to Vietnam, well there are those that say with all the American companies there making billions off of their cheap labor, mining their resources and how capitalistic they've become that we won the war afterall!

But the Kent State tragedy was a tragedy that the college students were more to blame for than anyone else.
 

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BTW, to get back on topic, I find it interesting that the left would have such a problem with NRA which started out as an organization to promote marksmanship skills because of the lack of skill seen in Union soldiers of the Civil war yet they have no problem with lobbying groups writing Obamacare, writing gun laws like the SAFE Act, the Assault weapons ban etc.

Once again, the left shows it's hypocrisy.

As to answering specifically, I think the NRA and law enforcement are better suited to train personnel in concealed carry.
Concealed carry is not really a military thing.
 

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Dragging the Kent St incident into this is puzzling for yet another reason, the OP is talking about CCW not service members carrying Garands. How you came to that post, is questionable at best.
 

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Um...what were we talking about again?
 

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I would say neither, what real training do you get to carry concealed? I mean it's not that big of a deal. It's the use of force issue that must be taught and that differs from state to state. Seeing as how national guard is by the state, used beyond local laws in disaster situations. I would say the burden on the training should fall on the state.

FYI any training is a CYA training to mitigate liability as it is not that much which can be trained other than function and use of deadly force which can only be taught from books not really learned until that time comes
 

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Getting back to the original question:

The National Guard needs to stick to training for NG function. CCW is not part of that. Plus, adding that training to the NG responsibilities will only make it cost much more than necessary. After all, it is a government entity.
I'm willing to bet the NRA would do the job for a nominal fee or free of charge.
 
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