Long Island Shooters Forum banner
1 - 20 of 195 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
38,620 Posts
We Lost Our Daughter to a Mass Shooter and Now Owe $203,000 to His Ammo Dealer

Lonnie and Sandy Phillips

We have been getting a lot of questions about our lawsuit against Lucky Gunner, the online company that sold ammunition to the man who murdered our daughter Jessica along with 11 others in an Aurora, Colorado, theater. Especially after the Rachel Maddow Show covered us twice, people ask us about the judge's order that we pay Lucky Gunner's attorneys' fees, since our lawsuit was unsuccessful.

We brought our lawsuit because we thought it was outrageous that companies could sell a dangerous man an arsenal without getting any information about him, and without making any effort to see if he was a dangerous killer -- which he was. When the killer had left a voicemail with a shooting range, the range operator knew that he was bad news and shouldn't be given access to guns. But these companies set up their business so people just like this killer can arm themselves at the click of a mouse. We wanted to change that. And we still do.

Attorneys at Arnold and Porter and the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence brought the lawsuit for us, pro bono. We knew the risks of bringing the case. We knew that Colorado and Congress have given special protection of the gun industry, and we knew that under Colorado law we could even be ordered to pay attorneys' fees because of those special protections.

But we thought it was important to take a stand, to fight to prevent other families from suffering as we have. We did not seek any money in our case. We just wanted injunctive relief -- to have these companies act reasonably when they sold dangerous materiel, like 100-round ammunition magazines, ammunition, body armor, and tear gas.

The judge dismissed our case because, he said, these online sellers had special immunity from the general duty to use reasonable care under the federal Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act and a Colorado immunity law. If you couple the PLCAA law with Colorado's law HB 000-208, (which says in essence: If you bring a civil case against a gun or ammunition seller and the case is dismissed then the plaintiff must pay all the defendant's costs), you have an impenetrable barrier to using the judicial system to effect change in gun legislation in Colorado.

Everyone else in society has a duty to use reasonable care to not injure others -- except gun and ammunition sellers.

To make matters worse, the judge ordered that we pay $203,000. This is an outrageous amount, especially given that this case was decided after one single motion! Lucky Gunner has said that it is going to donate all these fees to "gun rights" groups. The thought is disgusting to us that Lucky Gunner does not even plan to use this money to pay for their attorney's fees.

Lucky Gunner wants to use blood money to fund the NRA and like-minded groups. See for yourself. Check out Lucky Gunner's self-serving description of our case then click on "Head Here" (the green words at the end of Lucky Gunner's last sentence) to find out how the money is to be distributed.

The law says we are responsible for these fees, which we recognize. We do not have the money to pay this amount. The Judge insinuated in his order that Brady should pay since he said they were the instigators. If this was a ploy designed to give the appearance that Brady was responsible and turn us against each other, it did not work.

Brady is still fighting for us pro bono and we see no evidence that the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence will not help us raise funds if and when that time comes.

We believe that the judge's decision was wrong, and that it is unconstitutional to financially punish people for bringing a lawsuit, especially a public interest case that did not seek a dime. But rather than risk possibly being ordered to pay even more fees, we are changing our focus from going after these laws in the judicial branch (we have dropped our appeal) to getting them overturned on the legislative level.

We have brought attorney Dan Wartell with the law firm Jones & Keller into our team who is also helping us.

We hope that we are spearheading a movement to expose these egregious and unconstitutional laws for what they really are. They are an attack on our civil liberties. With these laws in place ordinary citizens are effectively barred by the exorbitant cost from bringing any civil action against sellers of firearms and ammunition.

It is un-American and outrageous that these special laws can deny us our day in court simply because we were victimized by the gun industry. Our lawsuit was not frivolous. Our Jessi was shot multiple times with high-velocity, armor-piercing bullets that were designed by our military to inflict maximum damage on enemy combatants.

One of the six, steel-jacketed bullets that killed her slammed through a theater seat, entered her left eye and left a five-inch hole in her face as it blew her brains out on to the theater floor. The other five specially designed bullets tumbled when they tore through her flesh and did devastating damage to both legs, arms and intestines.

Those bullets were six of 4,000 that Lucky Gunner sold to a mass murderer in one sale without even checking his driver's license.

Why is there a law that says you cannot sue an ammunitions dealer that allowed 4,000 rounds of armor-piercing bullets into the wrong hands?

How else are we as citizens going to get them to stop doing that?

No other industry has this immunity.

The horrific and public execution of our daughter Jessi and 11 other beautiful young lives has given us a brief window of opportunity to bring awareness to the number one public health crisis facing this nation today which is rampant gun violence. It is unfathomable to me that the billion dollar gun lobby can intimidate our Congress and some state legislatures into passing laws that give the gun industry immunity against irresponsible acts that enables them to arm, and profit from, domestic terrorists, and other killers.

It is abhorrent to us as the parents of a child who has been killed by a person with outwardly obvious mental issues who was able to easily access a one hundred round magazine and 4,000 rounds of armor-piercing bullets online without a valid ID.

Who is our last line of defense that makes that conscious decision to not ask for ID before selling large orders of lethal, military-grade armament? Online sellers, knowing they are shielded by immunity laws, refuse to put into place even minimal safeguards that would save lives. That is abhorrent to us.

One of the ways that we can level the playing field is to create precedents in our court rooms that make gun and ammunition dealers pay a price for conduct that contributes to gun violence. Another way is to lobby our state and federal legislators to repeal these laws. That is our objective.

We are calling on the citizens of this country and the gun violence prevention community to stand ready to help us get in the face of state and national legislators. Join us in helping to get the word out to the American citizens who are not aware of how these laws take away the rights of victims of gun violence.

_______________

Lonnie and Sandy Phillips' daughter, Jessica Ghawi, was murdered in the Aurora, Colorado theater massacre in 2012. Since then, they have become advocates for common-sense gun laws in America. Their non-profit, Jessi's Message, allows them to take their trailer and travel the country telling their story and working with fellow victims and survivors of violence.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lonnie-and-sandy-phillips/lucky-gunner-lawsuit_b_8197804.html
 

· Banned
Joined
·
10,833 Posts
Ugh, this is aggravating. So we should blame other people/objects for the actions of an individual?

"these laws take away the rights of victims of gun violence."
Uh...what rights were taken away? None. But you're trying to strip me of my right to self defense. So GFY.

"The law says we are responsible for these fees, which we recognize. We do not have the money to pay this amount. The Judge insinuated in his order that Brady should pay since he said they were the instigators. If this was a ploy designed to give the appearance that Brady was responsible and turn us against each other, it did not work."

These people are bloody nuts. If this paragraph doesn't sum up the ignorance and stupidity of gun control advocates I don't know what does. They started a lawsuit and then don't have the money to pay for it when they lose. Are you kidding me?
 

· Clinger
Joined
·
4,810 Posts
This is typical liberal thought.... " I know what the laws says .... but I don't like THAT law and you should do it my way because I'm smarter than you" ... My prediction ...they ain't gonna pay... But my question is What were they "parents " gonna do with the settlement money ..give it to anti-gun type organizations ..or keep it for themselves . . disingenuous people that were "played" and manipulated by the antis... I hope they find peace and solace in their liberal world for their loss.. but.. I doubt it
 

· Banned
Joined
·
6,368 Posts
" you have an impenetrable barrier to using the judicial system to effect change in gun legislation in Colorado."

What part of your case was going to stop a lunatic? Once again, pointing the finger at the tool and not the person using it, is not the answer. Once again, failure in the person does not = failure in the system.
 

· Banned
Joined
·
2,193 Posts
Who the hell are any of you to sit in these people shoes ? How would you react to your child being shot to death ? Who knows the dynamics here, we're these people drawn in at at hour of grief ? Who knows just how something like this would F with your mind ? Was it right that the lawsuit failed on its lack of merit, 100% absolutely. But to throw the comments you guys are making that could very well be taken out of context, well let's just say LIF never ceases to amaze me.
 

· Banned
Joined
·
17,097 Posts
Who the hell are any of you to sit in these people shoes ? How would you react to your child being shot to death ? Who knows the dynamics here, we're these people drawn in at at hour of grief ? Who knows just how something like this would F with your mind ? Was it right that the lawsuit failed on its lack of merit, 100% absolutely. But to throw the comments you guys are making that could very well be taken out of context, well let's just say LIF never ceases to amaze me.
It's not LIF. It's the overall sentiment of the people who are sick and tired of this stuff. I feel for their loss, but when they try to tred on my freedoms because of their loss, I stop caring right away. It turns to screw them.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
7,861 Posts
I've used Lucky Gunner before and like their prices and services. This thread is a reminder that I need to stock up on more 7.62NATO, 7mmRM and 5.56. Next week I'm placing an order through LG.
 
1 - 20 of 195 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top