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Very funny.

This guy is so casual. like he is spraying air freshner.

Has the econmey size can also.
 

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Assault is a behavior; Not a weapon.
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Schneiderman said:
No more than you do for being a gun owner.
Of course ... but when you look at it this way ...

Media Distort UC Davis Pepper Spray Incident
Rick Hahn - November 21, 2011

Exclusive to Accuracy in Media

The saddest thing about the UC Davis pepper spray incident is that the press is not reporting the incident in its entirety, nor is the press considering what other things may have occurred.

First, there's the question of why the police were there. Presumably, they had been dispatched by some campus authority to disperse the demonstrators. This is evidently why they showed up in numbers and wearing what police call "riot gear."

Second, nowhere in the accounts is there a description of what the police did to disperse the crowd before the pepper spray incident. Surely, they didn't simply walk up and initiate the pepper spray action without first asking the protesters to disband and peacefully leave the area. But this is not recorded in the press accounts. It would be enlightening and perhaps even game changing if we knew exactly what happened in the minutes and hours before the pepper spray incident. But we don't, thanks to incomplete, if not irresponsible reporting.

But in the absence of this information, let's assume that the police made an effort to address the crowd and professionally and courteously asked them to disperse, or risk arrest. Any such effort clearly failed. This leaves the police with only a few options. They can retreat and leave the protesters alone, but that would be to deny their charged duty to clear the area. Alternately, they could forcibly attempt to arrest and remove the protesters. Many of the protesters were seated with arms interlocked. This means police would have had to physically engage them. The fact that the protesters were seated leaves police trying to disengage them from one another at a balance disadvantage. The cops have to bend over or crouch down to try to physically disengage any one individual, bring him or her to their feet and affect the arrest. The fact that the protesters had interlocked their arms was surely an effort to avoid any one individual being removed for arrest. There's no way of knowing how strongly the protesters would have fought disengagement, but the fact is, they were inducing, baiting if you will, physical confrontation from the police. And this sort of situation doesn't bode well for anyone. The risk of physical injury to both the individual protesters and the police is enormous. Further, in any physical contact there is likely to be a flare of temper and passion which only exacerbates the combat and the general situation.

So the police were stuck. Do they walk away, or do they physically try to arrest and remove the protesters. The decision apparently fell to the latter. However, aware of the risks involved in physically wrestling with the protesters, the police decided to first use a police tool designed to make non-compliant persons more manageable by putting them in a temporary state of discomfort: pepper spray.

Were the protesters warned in advance? Again, we don't know, as the reports don't tell us whether any formal announcement was made, but the presence of the officer seen in the video was a clear warning in and of itself. Any one of those protesters seated before him could see he was about to apply some sort of gas or spray, and the protesters, at least at that moment when the video starts to run, were well aware of what was about to occur. More importantly, at that moment any one of them could have stopped it. They could have said "Wait a minute-I'll move!," and with that started to comply with the police orders. But they didn't. Rather, aware that some sort of spray was about to be dispensed, they hid their faces, another sign that they knew what was about to occur.

Did it have to come to that? The simple answer is no. The protesters deserve the bulk of the blame. They provoked it by not complying with the police, hence breaking the law. In retrospect, it is easy to see that the provocation by the protesters was intentional, possibly in hopes of inciting the police to escalated physical confrontation. Certainly the jeers from the crowd, "Shame on you," were also designed to provoke the police.

Shame on all the protesters. They collectively provoked the incident and then continued to verbally provoke the officers on the scene. They knew exactly what they were doing.

Finally, the press finds some tremendous flaw in the dispassionate way in which the police officer dispensed the pepper spray. What, pray tell, would they have found preferable? An officer giving a stern warning: "If you people don't move in the next ten seconds, I'm going to gas you!" Or perhaps some might prefer an officer who would taunt the protesters, saying something like, "Okay kids, playtime is over. No more Mr. Nice Guy…" The fact is, no matter what the officer might say, the protesters (and perhaps the press) would use it to their advantage.

No statement is required from the police once a situation has reached the point that this one did. The protesters knew what was about to happen, they could have changed it by complying, but didn't. The officer's dispassionate approach was the best possible approach to avoid escalating the situation while doing what he had to do. Unless someone believes that the officer should have been apologizing: "Gee, I'm sorry I have to do this, but it's my job, y'know?" What else would be appropriate? No doubt that officer was given the order to dispense the pepper spray. He did so without any sign of either disgust or joy in doing it. He simply did what was seen as the next step necessary to affect the dispersal of the crowd. And the crowd, on the other hand, became more unruly and threatening to the police. Again, they, the crowd en masse, were the provocateurs, chanting and focusing on the police.

The fact that the crowd became more threatening and unruly led the police to withdraw, a prudent step at that point, as it was clear the situation had hit a plateau and could only get more heated or less, but could not sustain itself at that level of emotion. Again, this was not owing to the police actions, for they clearly only intended to keep on doing what they had already started to do, that is, physically remove the protesters. But the crowd was becoming more vocal and threatening. So to avoid more physical confrontation, the police withdrew.

In the end, this incident was an unfortunate one for all involved. But the way the press has treated this is a travesty. They have tried and convicted the police of some sort of brutality, which is fictional. Furthermore, they fail to provide all the facts necessary to fairly judge exactly what happened in this incident. For my part, until all the facts are in, I'll reserve any judgment about the police. As for the protesters, in my view they clearly provoked this situation. What's not clear is how fast it escalated and what efforts to defuse the situation were made before the spray was dispensed. These may be mitigating factors, but only to a degree. The fact is, the protesters resisted the police, and that is a violation of law. We live in a land ruled by law, not mobs. Consequently, in the end the responsibility for this incident rests with the protesters, not the police.
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Of course, in Liberalland, the police should have been delivering meals, provided by the taxpayers.
 

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Schneiderman said:
No more than you do for being a gun owner.
Yes, because most gun owners routinely demonstrate, block public and private roadways and footpaths, passively resist police officers, refuse to comply with lawful orders to disperse and do it on mommy and daddy's dime.

Please.

Are you sure you're a gun owner? Maybe you should be down at OWS.
 

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sherm66 said:
Yes, because most gun owners routinely demonstrate, block public and private roadways and footpaths, passively resist police officers, refuse to comply with lawful orders to disperse and do it on mommy and daddy's dime.

Please.

Are you sure you're a gun owner? Maybe you should be down at OWS.
 

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Assault is a behavior; Not a weapon.
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Ox ... sorry to take this off topic, but ... nice avatar. But to me, you'll always be THE caveman.

Am I showing my age here??
 

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sherm66 said:
Yes, because most gun owners routinely demonstrate, block public and private roadways and footpaths, passively resist police officers, refuse to comply with lawful orders to disperse and do it on mommy and daddy's dime.

Please.

Are you sure you're a gun owner? Maybe you should be down at OWS.
Remember Waco and Ruby Ridge?
 

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The Big Ox said:
Hey! Another closet lib! Fantastic! Turn in your guns(if you indeed do actually own any) and report to Zucotti Park for reeducation. ;D

Perfectly calm here. I'm having a beer and my feet are up on the desk. Maybe you can answer the question. Where do you see moral equivalence between gun owners and protesters passively resisting police, who have been directed to leave per the UC Chancellor and still refuse thus breaking the law? And were it your son crying his little eyes out after a good hosing with pepper spray, you'd be patting him on the back saying "Great job son! Glad you stood your ground against those fascist pigs." ??
 

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T.Webb said:
Of course ... but when you look at it this way ...
.
*snip*

Oh dear, people were blocking the sidewalk. Call in the riot police!

I went to college. People blocked the sidewalks, the hallways, the stairways, doorways, etc all the time. Not because they were protesting anything, but because they were clueless idiots. In 4 years I never had to pepperspray anybody. Walk around them or barge through them. Problem solved.
 

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sherm66 said:
Yes, because most gun owners routinely demonstrate, block public and private roadways and footpaths, passively resist police officers, refuse to comply with lawful orders to disperse and do it on mommy and daddy's dime.
Most gun owners exercise their 2nd amendment rights just like most protesters exercise their 1st amendment rights. Various other groups of people are offended, and may even feel unduly threatened by the exercising of these rights. This does not justify using pepper spray on innocent, peaceful people.

Please.

Are you sure you're a gun owner? Maybe you should be down at OWS.
I've been to OWS. Just to survey the situation. It's mostly filled with idiots, bums and sleazeballs. When I was there, the police were standing around, occasionally telling people to "move along". As long as the protesters are peaceful, THAT IS THE CORRECT WAY TO HANDLE THE SITUATION.

Are you sure you're an American? Maybe you should move to North Messing Korea.
 

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And you're inaccurate in calling anyone who disagrees with you on this matter, a closet liberal. The tenet of liberalism is to embrace expansive government control. Sorry, YOU are on the liberal side of this issue.
 

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Schneiderman said:
And you're inaccurate in calling anyone who disagrees with you on this matter, a closet liberal. The tenet of liberalism is to embrace expansive government control. Sorry, YOU are on the liberal side of this issue.
"I'm not a lib, you are?"

That was sarcasm after the "calm down champ" meme poster as one discerning my actual demeanor from a post with no verbal inflection or facial cues would be silly, just as me discerning one's political leanings from a single post would be just as silly. So for you to take that with any weight of sincerity is a tad off, but hey, it's teh interwebz, and you can be as serious or dire as you want. So for the record, I do not actually believe he is a lib. Nor do I believe, as you do, that a college student engaging in civil disobedience, breaking the law on state property, disregarding the orders of the police, at the behest of the University Chancellor is morally equal to a gun owner. A gun owner exercising their 2A rights is not the moral equal to someone protesting on private property and asked to leave but refusing. To the contrary, it's called trespassing, disorderly conduct, obstructing governmental administration. Just as you can't park your derriere on my lawn and protest my irresponsible use of the word "liberal" without my permission. If asked to leave and you don't, the popo come. If asked to leave and you sit resolutely and unflinchingly refuse the officer's orders expect to either get your ass dragged off my property, pepper sprayed and dragged off my property or TASERed and have your as dragged off my property by the police, because that's how they handle the civilly disobedient, and I applaud them. All within the officer's ability to do...legally and procedurally. No different at UC Davis.

See, as a gun owner I exercise my rights responsibly and within the confines of the law. Don't carry outside the terms of your permit(which isn't the law anyways) and don't carry it where you shouldn't. You can be a big boy and exercise your rights responsibly too. But, do it illegally and you now engage in the 'play stupid games, win stupid prizes' contest. So when you plant your derriere in front of cops, who do indeed enforce the law, and break it in front of them what else would you expect to get? A cookie? A pat on the head?
 

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Schneiderman said:
Most gun owners exercise their 2nd amendment rights just like most protesters exercise their 1st amendment rights. Various other groups of people are offended, and may even feel unduly threatened by the exercising of these rights. This does not justify using pepper spray on innocent, peaceful people.

I've been to OWS. Just to survey the situation. It's mostly filled with idiots, bums and sleazeballs. When I was there, the police were standing around, occasionally telling people to "move along". As long as the protesters are peaceful, THAT IS THE CORRECT WAY TO HANDLE THE SITUATION.

Are you sure you're an American? Maybe you should move to North Messing Korea.
And what in my post, pray tell makes me Un-American? My idea that you should respect and abide by the law? That when you don't there are consequences? That I am pro police in this situation and anti-"idiots,bums and sleazeballs" as you put it. But the UC Davis met none of those monikers you attribute to the NY OWS protesters.

WHen the police tell one to "move along" and they do, problem solved. When the police tell someone to "move along" and they don't why do you believe they should get a pass? Why do you believe that they are just like gun owners?

What in my post earns me the trip to North Korea? Do they have kimchi there or is that just South Korea?
 

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Lemming said:
Dan post in 5, 4, 3. . .
Several beat me to it, Lem....and better than I could've said it.

Besides, I only really like to respond to YOUR ignorant, anti-cop, rhetoric! ;D (kidding - YOU started)
 

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Assault is a behavior; Not a weapon.
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Schneiderman said:
*snip*

Oh dear, people were blocking the sidewalk. Call in the riot police!

I went to college. People blocked the sidewalks, the hallways, the stairways, doorways, etc all the time. Not because they were protesting anything, but because they were clueless idiots. In 4 years I never had to pepperspray anybody. Walk around them or barge through them. Problem solved.
So, I guess you didn't read the article I posted. Those people were ordered to move and chose to defy the police. In my opinion, the cops chose the safest (for themselves) option.
 

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Aquabach said:
You're equating shooting at someone on their own property with pepper spraying on public property after orders to disperse?
It's teh interwebz. It doesn't have to be a fair, reasoned or well thought out comparison. Just type and post.
 
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