Unfortunately the government restricts your rights via serious economic and civil liberties penalties even if you ultimately win a case. it will cost you tens of thousands of dollars to fight the charges and in the meantime you will be robbed of your ability to exercise your 2A rights. This is contrary to the idea that when there is a question about the exercise of a constitutional right, as there is on the carry issue, the presumption is suppose to be you have that right and the government has the burden to show that you don't. Any arrest based on restricted carry should be automatically nullified (actually it shouldn't have been made) because there is serious conflict regarding the constitutionality of these laws and the presumption is you have that right.
Those who have a CCW
Those who took the 18 hour course and have been issued a CCW license for Suffolk. Do you regularly carry like a normal state allows? Now that the prices of classes are coming down do you feel it’s worth being able to carry in limited circumstances since many lawsuits are active? Asking cause I have friends who want to take the course but aren’t sure if they’re even able to carry daily with out risking a felony
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Not all laws are vague. Not even all criminal laws are vague. Many are even hyper specific.all laws are vague, if they weren’t I would be out of business
I don't know what your business is, but I am sure it's not based on the vagueness of "all laws."
I am in the business in helping lawyers twist the laws to to their viewpoints so they can win cases. Yes, All laws can evolve to mean different things based on how courts rule on themNot all laws are vague. Not even all criminal laws are vague. Many are even hyper specific.
I don't know what your business is, but I am sure it's not based on the vagueness of "all laws."
It’s a big reason why I have been a big proponent of natural laws and natural rights. It’s the only way to preserve justice and liberty at the same time
Natural laws can also be interpreted in different ways by different people. Among human society there are very few if any absolutes. People can and have justified every sort of behavior. That said there are laws that are more clear than others. Forcing a woman to have sex with you is considered a horrible crime in the U.S. but in some cultures a woman is your property to do with what you will.I am in the business in helping lawyers twist the laws to to their viewpoints so they can win cases. Yes, All laws can evolve to mean different things based on how courts rule on them
It’s a big reason why I have been a big proponent of natural laws and natural rights. It’s the only way to preserve justice and liberty at the same time
I know I'm off the track. As mention when there is a lack of clarity regarding the exercise of a Constitutional right the presumption is or should be in favor of the exercising of that right.
How would it look if they arrested a black woman teacher on a school trip while carrying in NYC. Who had a license issued from Upstate NY? Ask Diane Watkins who was booked on charges of second degree criminal possession of a weapon.How would it look if they had a few squad cars tied up arresting a ccw license holder with no record, for stopping at his favorite diner while 4 or 5 people were getting shot in a drive by in a nearby area?
morality is not subjective, regardless how many times humans twist itNatural laws can also be interpreted in different ways by different people. Among human society there are very few if any absolutes. People can and have justified every sort of behavior. That said there are laws that are more clear than others. Forcing a woman to have sex with you is considered a horrible crime in the U.S. but in some cultures a woman is your property to do with what you will.
I know I'm off the track. As mention when there is a lack of clarity regarding the exercise of a Constitutional right the presumption is or should be in favor of the exercising of that right.
Just ask the Nazi's during the Nuremberg trials
You ignored my comment about rape. What constitutes rape is different it different cultures.morality is not subjective, regardless how many times humans twist it
Just ask the Nazi's during the Nuremberg trials
Where does your absolute morality come from? I can guarantee you that a large segment of the population doesn't agree with. We are talk about morality as we understand it as humans. I believe there is an absolute morality. What I question is man's ability to know and understand it.
i didn’t ignore it…you obviously didn’t read what I said. It probably never connects with you because you don’t believe our rights are inalienable anyway. Covid proved thatYou ignored my comment about rape. What constitutes rape is different it different cultures.
Where does your absolute morality come from? I can guarantee you that a large segment of the population doesn't agree with. We are talk about morality as we understand it as humans. I believe there is an absolute morality. What I question is man's ability to know and understand it.
Saying morality is an absolute, but man’s ability to not know it is hogwash. Even a sociopath knows right and wrong
I read your comment. You said morality is NOT subjective. It absolutely is subject with each person deciding on what standard is correct. And rather than answering the question (where did you get your standard of morality) you deflect with a discussion of Covid. So answer the question, where did you find this objective standard of morality?i didn’t ignore it…you obviously didn’t read what I said. It probably never connects with you because you don’t believe our rights are inalienable anyway. Covid proved that
Saying morality is an absolute, but man’s ability to not know it is hogwash. Even a sociopath knows right and wrong
I agree, but I would be careful here for two reasons:It’s a big reason why I have been a big proponent of natural laws and natural rights. It’s the only way to preserve justice and liberty at the same time
1) not all laws are based upon morality (ie derive from the natural law) or touch upon unalienable divine or natural rights; and
2) Natural laws and definitions of natural laws are not vague in the sense we've been talking about it, but they are general as hell. They require a civil law to implement them, which in turn relies on (inherently flawed) men who can also disagree to come up with the best manifestation of the natural law to govern civil society. Then they have to stick to it, and when they don't, have mechanisms in place to make them stick to it or otherwise punish them for transgressing that ordered liberty. Hence our republican form of government, not of men, but of laws.
if morality is subjective then you are saying the Nazi’s legally killed the JewsI read your comment. You said morality is NOT subjective. It absolutely is subject with each person deciding on what standard is correct. And rather than answering the question (where did you get your standard of morality) you deflect with a discussion of Covid. So answer the question, where did you find this objective standard of morality?
i didn’t deflect with Covid, I see you as no different then the Nazi's. You fell in line with the wrong side
1. quite the opposite, most laws outside of natural law infringe on moralityI agree, but I would be careful here for two reasons:
1) not all laws are based upon morality (ie derive from the natural law) or touch upon unalienable divine or natural rights; and
2) Natural laws and definitions of natural laws are not vague in the sense we've been talking about it, but they are general as hell. They require a civil law to implement them, which in turn relies on (inherently flawed) men who can also disagree to come up with the best manifestation of the natural law to govern civil society. Then they have to stick to it, and when they don't, have mechanisms in place to make them stick to it or otherwise punish them for transgressing that ordered liberty. Hence our republican form of government, not of men, but of laws.
2. disagree, the “right to contract” gets resolved through the private sector all the time. Why bother with a corrupt state. When there is a more fair system for both parties
You stop for gas, while carrying. Your gun prints, your shirt lifts, something random happens and someone sees you are carrying a concealed handgun.
They call the police. Maybe they yell "He's got a gun", while you're in a grocery store. Remember, concealed carry is very new in NY State. People may not know about the CCW laws. Have fun explaining why you are carrying your handgun, concealed, in a sensitive area. Kiss your CCW goodbye. You do you.
I took a course in December. I received a call a few days ago, to pick up my CCW next week. It's pretty much useless at this point. And I highly recommend EVERYONE take the current course. It will educate those wanting to carry now, and it will make you think long and hard about where/when you want to carry, in the event the courts rule in our favor. I won't be changing my "lifestyle" to carry, when allowed to do so. I'll carefully consider where/when I'll be carrying. Responsibility and liability are huge considerations for those with the brains to think this through. JMO.
They call the police. Maybe they yell "He's got a gun", while you're in a grocery store. Remember, concealed carry is very new in NY State. People may not know about the CCW laws. Have fun explaining why you are carrying your handgun, concealed, in a sensitive area. Kiss your CCW goodbye. You do you.
I took a course in December. I received a call a few days ago, to pick up my CCW next week. It's pretty much useless at this point. And I highly recommend EVERYONE take the current course. It will educate those wanting to carry now, and it will make you think long and hard about where/when you want to carry, in the event the courts rule in our favor. I won't be changing my "lifestyle" to carry, when allowed to do so. I'll carefully consider where/when I'll be carrying. Responsibility and liability are huge considerations for those with the brains to think this through. JMO.
No one can make the decision for you on when or where to carry. If you do so be smart and have the right set up. Also just an added note if you are carrying i would suggest you get an umbrella policy for at-least a million dollars. This will cover you civilly god for bid you ever had to use it.
Why are you afraid to answer the question?if morality is subjective then you are saying the Nazi’s legally killed the Jews
i didn’t deflect with Covid, I see you as no different then the Nazi's. You fell in line with the wrong side
Legally? Well, under German law of the Third Reich, yes.if morality is subjective then you are saying the Nazi’s legally killed the Jews
What is moral is immutable, absolute, and unchanging. However, people have funny ideas of their own about what is and is not moral. Did the Führer not believe he was pursuing the highest moral good for the Fatherland in carrying out his Final Solution? One what grounds do you disagree he was not?
Paul's question is valid, goes to the heart of the matter, and is still pending.
1. Not the opposite at all. Only laws that run contrary to the natural law infringe on morality. Not those that merely sit outside of it.1. quite the opposite, most laws outside of natural law infringe on morality
2. disagree, the “right to contract” gets resolved through the private sector all the time. Why bother with a corrupt state. When there is a more fair system for both parties
2. In other words, everything is fair and works great when everything is fair and works great. Of course "the “right to contract” gets resolved through the private sector all the time." The State is there for when it doesn't. Consequently, the ballot box, jury box, and cartridge box are for those times when the State doesn't work.
I agree with your overall analysis, but a quick point about the snippet above.You stop for gas, while carrying. Your gun prints, your shirt lifts, something random happens and someone sees you are carrying a concealed handgun.
They call the police. Maybe they yell "He's got a gun", while you're in a grocery store. Remember, concealed carry is very new in NY State. People may not know about the CCW laws. Have fun explaining why you are carrying your handgun, concealed, in a sensitive area. Kiss your CCW goodbye. You do you.
You DO NOT explain anything. Unless you had to pull out the piece to smoke someone to stop a serious crime against yourself or another, you admit nothing. Even then, you will be very minimal in your chattiness.
Keep it concealed and learn how to dress around the firearm. The good courses might go over this portion learning what to do in a situation.I agree with your overall analysis, but a quick point about the snippet above.
You DO NOT explain anything. Unless you had to pull out the piece to smoke someone to stop a serious crime against yourself or another, you admit nothing. Even then, you will be very minimal in your chattiness.
I think the chances are very unlikely that anyone would want to put themselves out and start such a commotion. There is a reasonable chance that the person that accidently exposed / printed their weapon could be a current or past member of law enforcement; and anyone with even a shred of common sense should realize that. I believe that most people simply don't want to get egg in their face from such a situation.You stop for gas, while carrying. Your gun prints, your shirt lifts, something random happens and someone sees you are carrying a concealed handgun.
They call the police. Maybe they yell "He's got a gun", while you're in a grocery store. Remember, concealed carry is very new in NY State. People may not know about the CCW laws. Have fun explaining why you are carrying your handgun, concealed, in a sensitive area. Kiss your CCW goodbye. You do you.
I took a course in December. I received a call a few days ago, to pick up my CCW next week. It's pretty much useless at this point. And I highly recommend EVERYONE take the current course. It will educate those wanting to carry now, and it will make you think long and hard about where/when you want to carry, in the event the courts rule in our favor. I won't be changing my "lifestyle" to carry, when allowed to do so. I'll carefully consider where/when I'll be carrying. Responsibility and liability are huge considerations for those with the brains to think this through. JMO.
Of course you could have a person that looks like a hoodlum that has a gun tucked into the back of their pants (felon carry), but I would bet the farm that an average person would be more fearful of getting vocal, pointing that person out, and making a commotion. They would most likely steer clear of the person and maybe call the police when they are a good distance away.
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