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So, I have read several posts on varying boards that most of the out of state ammo dealers incorrectly interpreted the Safe Act as it relates to the online sale of ammo. Does the fact that the Super of the NYS Police never certified that ammo background portion of the law was up and running (never created) negate everything in that section of the penal law? Look at #3 and then #7 which I copied and pasted directly from the penal law.

3. No later than thirty days after the superintendent of the state
police certifies that the statewide license and record database
established pursuant to section 400.02 of this article is operational
for the purposes of this section, a dealer in firearms licensed pursuant
to section 400.00 of this article, a seller of ammunition as defined in
subdivision twenty-four of section 265.00 of this chapter shall not
transfer any ammunition to any other person who is not a dealer in
firearms as defined in subdivision nine of such section 265.00 or a
seller of ammunition as defined in subdivision twenty-four of section
265.00 of this chapter, unless:
(a) before the completion of the transfer, the licensee or seller
contacts the statewide license and record database and provides the
database with information sufficient to identify such dealer or seller,
transferee based on information on the transferee's identification
document as defined in paragraph © of this subdivision, as well as the
amount, calibre, manufacturer's name and serial number, if any, of such
ammunition;
( the system provides the licensee or seller with a unique
identification number; and
© the transferor has verified the identity of the transferee by
examining a valid state identification document of the transferee issued
by the department of motor vehicles or if the transferee is not a
resident of the state of New York, a valid identification document
issued by the transferee's state or country of residence containing a
photograph of the transferee.

7. No commercial transfer of ammunition shall take place unless a
licensed dealer in firearms or registered seller of ammunition acts as
an intermediary between the transferor and the ultimate transferee of
the ammunition for the purposes of contacting the statewide license and
record database pursuant to this section. Such transfer between the
dealer or seller, and transferee must occur in person.

The ammo dealer is telling me that the fact that #3 never was implemented does not negate #7.
I think he is wrong. The dealers email went on to talk about the letter from June or July which I never even brought up.

Trying to buy some very hard to get ammo and this system sucks.
 

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There's a bunch of vendors that refuse to sell to NYS until UNsafe is repealed (SGAmmo for example). There are a number of vendors who will sell to you via an FFL.
I'm not going to get into arguing the law here or with the vendors. Who turned you down and was this with or without an FFL?
 

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Premium Member
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1,016 Posts
According to the State Police, you can buy ammo online and have it sent to an FFL or licensed dealer in ammo (a brand new state license), where you can pick it up. Those local dealers may charge you any fee they decide upon, locally as as low zero or as high as a few cents per round. Nearly all online vendors are aware of this, and make provisions to send your ammo to a NY dealer. Some sellers like Midway and Cabelas are not shipping to NY, but most are.

You cannot order it direct to your home, provision #7 is in effect, at least as far as the State Police are concerned.

Full disclosure, I am an FFL dealer.
 
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Not so sure about that, The law restricts vendors from shipping to your residence, does not restrict an individual from receiving it at their residence, They are not shipping an illegal item we are allowed to possess ammunition, The vendor would be in violation of the law not the recipient consumer.

On the other side of the coin, if an individual knowingly has something that is Illegal to possess, shipped to their home, by an unknowing vendor, that individual would be guilty of possession of said item, once it is in his/her possession.

residents and vendors from other states are not truly bound by NYS laws while out of state.

at least this is how I see it
 

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Clinger
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4,810 Posts
Out of State vendors and FFLs are complying with a law on ammo sales that is not in effect nor is it enforceable .... It's like not making a right on red after stopping ... I guess it's fine if you wait for the green .. but you are efing up traffic for no reason .
 

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Nimble Navigator
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According to the State Police, you can buy ammo online and have it sent to an FFL or licensed dealer in ammo (a brand new state license), where you can pick it up. Those local dealers may charge you any fee they decide upon, locally as as low zero or as high as a few cents per round. Nearly all online vendors are aware of this, and make provisions to send your ammo to a NY dealer. Some sellers like Midway and Cabelas are not shipping to NY, but most are.

You cannot order it direct to your home, provision #7 is in effect, at least as far as the State Police are concerned.

Full disclosure, I am an FFL dealer.
7. No commercial transfer of ammunition shall take place unless a
licensed dealer in firearms or registered seller of ammunition acts as
an intermediary between the transferor and the ultimate transferee of
the ammunition for the purposes of contacting the statewide license and
record database pursuant to this section. Such transfer between the
dealer or seller, and transferee must occur in person.

So when you collect your transfer fee, what exactly are you checking? You got me at the intermediary part but as we all know in order for something to logically be true, every part must be true.

Is anyone else slightly annoyed that there are companies out there with a vested interest in keeping this blatantly unconstitutional law on the books?
 

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win support for firearms - train a new shooter
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1,671 Posts
Not so sure about that, The law restricts vendors from shipping to your residence, does not restrict an individual from receiving it at their residence, They are not shipping an illegal item we are allowed to possess ammunition, The vendor would be in violation of the law not the recipient consumer.

On the other side of the coin, if an individual knowingly has something that is Illegal to possess, shipped to their home, by an unknowing vendor, that individual would be guilty of possession of said item, once it is in his/her possession.

residents and vendors from other states are not truly bound by NYS laws while out of state.

at least this is how I see it
there is no database

Under this line of reasoning there is one big vendor that suggested you use UPS / Fed Ex as your agent (you pay and direct ) to pick up your shipment and deliver it to your NYS location

there's enough FFL's around to avoid being a test case
 

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9,460 Posts
COMMERCE CLAUSE! This thing stinks from the head, how has there not been more litigation against NYS on this issue? There is no database, therefore there is no database for an FFL or Dealer in Ammunition to check anything against.
Every one of us is sustaining economic damages everytime we pick up ammo that we order online. How is that ok?

IANAL, far from it, but please help me understand how we are not being harmed here. I can buy ammo anywhere in the US, but I am restricted by my own home state. SMFH
 

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Powderfinger
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COMMERCE CLAUSE! This thing stinks from the head, how has there not been more litigation against NYS on this issue? There is no database, therefore there is no database for an FFL or Dealer in Ammunition to check anything against.
Every one of us is sustaining economic damages everytime we pick up ammo that we order online. How is that ok?

IANAL, far from it, but please help me understand how we are not being harmed here. I can buy ammo anywhere in the US, but I am restricted by my own home state. SMFH
Because We are all right wing gun toting, 2nd Amendment, freedom loving, Cuomo hating extremists. They just don't give a [email protected]
 

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Clinger
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4,810 Posts
Aquabach... I can speak for myself here... I am a bit annoyed with the vendors and dealers... to the extent that they are making an abortion of a law/restriction being perpetuated after it is clear that ...the law is not in effect .. not enforceable and thus no penalty . The purpose was to prevent unauthorized persons from getting ammo... it requires a background check..that needs a data base ..the FFLs have been burdened with Registering as a Dealer in ammo.. to do these checks and to collect a fee for NO REASON ..they can not comply with a law ..cause there is no data base...there is nothing to check . Further ... these ffl are also being required to be an intermediary for an item they already sell... for no reason ... If I was an FFL the last thing I would want is to be a responsibly for items that I'm not making any money on or to have to store someone else's stuff till they decide to come get it....
 

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There's a bunch of vendors that refuse to sell to NYS until UNsafe is repealed (SGAmmo for example). There are a number of vendors who will sell to you via an FFL.
I'm not going to get into arguing the law here or with the vendors. Who turned you down and was this with or without an FFL?
Ammo to Go, and the turn down is direct to me which is why I question their interpretation of the law.

Looking for Cor-Bon 300 Whisper in 220gr which is very hard find as very few dealers carry it, so when you find it you have to jump on it.

Also aware of the various dealers on LI and elsewhere who would handle the transfer for free or a small fee, but that is not the root of my issue.

It is mind blowing that if any other industry was subjected to this there would be massive corporate money pouring in to fight it.

Thanks
 

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Clinger
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4,810 Posts
Ammo to Go, and the turn down is direct to me which is why I question their interpretation of the law.

Looking for Cor-Bon 300 Whisper in 220gr which is very hard find as very few dealers carry it, so when you find it you have to jump on it.

Also aware of the various dealers who will handle the transfer but that is not the root of my issue.

Thanks
Well when you put it that way ...this should have been a ...Why don't you start reloading " thread instead of a NYS sux thread.
 
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