Long Island Shooters Forum banner
41 - 56 of 56 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,262 Posts
Gary, NYSRPA v. Bruen 2 might never make it if New York tweaks the sensitive locations on private businesses and other locations, mooting the case.
It's going to take more than just a little tweaking.

The standard of scrutiny is text, history and tradition. There is nothing in any of these that will justify the extensive list of sensitive places in S51001.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,212 Posts
So the fact that Suffolk County will issue a license (severely restricted) if you check off the appropriate box on an application is still not compliance with the Supreme Court ruling. The Supreme Court ruling says there should be no requirement to state a "proper cause" when for applying for a license.
The "proper cause" requirement has not only been declared unconstitional by SCOTUS, but it has also been removed from NY State law by the Legislature. There is no cause to be shown anywhere if you want any type of license. You just have to tell them whether you 1) want to carry the gun concealed on your person; or 2) merely "have and possess it." If you choose option 1, you need the training and to renew every three years. If you choose 2, you have tell them WHERE you want to have and possess the gun (at home or at your business), no training and renew every 5 years.

Something is lost in translation somewhere. There is no way there can be any type of carry concealed license that is good for five years anymore.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,262 Posts
The "proper cause" requirement has not only been declared unconstitional by SCOTUS, but it has also been removed from NY State law by the Legislature. There is no cause to be shown anywhere if you want any type of license. You just have to tell them whether you 1) want to carry the gun concealed on your person; or 2) merely "have and possess it." If you choose option 1, you need the training and to renew every three years. If you choose 2, you have tell them WHERE you want to have and possess the gun (at home or at your business), no training and renew every 5 years.

Something is lost in translation somewhere. There is no way there can be any type of carry concealed license that is good for five years anymore.
I don't even thing a requirement to tell them how you are going to carry is ultimately going to stand Constitutional muster. While there is some historical (in the time period referenced in the Bruen decision) about not carrying arms in a way that caused alarm simply carrying a firearm in plain view would not be considered carrying in a way that caused alarm. There is nothing in the text of the 2nd Amendment that says anything about how you carry. Someone can check me on this but I don't believe there were any pervasive laws regarding concealed carry until the late 1800's or early 1900's. And those laws were to PREVENT concealed carry.

Beyond that there were no training requirements in the text, history and tradition and I don't think you can use the prefatory clause of the 2nd Amendment as support for a training requirement being Constitutional. The "well regulated" is connected to the militia not "The People". In addition, any training requirement would be subjective and subjective requirements established by a licensing authority will face a stiff challenge as will the subjective good character requirements. Of course I realize all of this is going to be fought tooth and nail by the powers that be in NYS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,212 Posts
I agree on all fronts, but will add a bit more on this point:

I don't even thing a requirement to tell them how you are going to carry is ultimately going to stand Constitutional muster.

I think this is very true when it comes to carry, although I cannot recall whether there any restrictions on open/versus concealed carry in 1791. Possibly, but I associate that more with the old west. There may be longstanding (as in back then) precedent for restrictions on having loaded guns in that I wouldn't be surprised if there was some ordinance in colonial america or just after whereby you couldn't have balls and powder loaded in the gun or with you at the same time.

What I am most eager to see is how and whether any court will down laws requiring a license/permit to carry a gun, or even own a gun at all. That is what NY's law is based on. Without a carry license, you cannot anywhere without special permission. With the premises license, you can't even buy or own. One silver lining in the CCIA law is that you can now shoot at a range with no license if you're with an instructor.....without having to be between teh ages of 14 and 21.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,262 Posts
I agree on all fronts, but will add a bit more on this point:




I think this is very true when it comes to carry, although I cannot recall whether there any restrictions on open/versus concealed carry in 1791. Possibly, but I associate that more with the old west. There may be longstanding (as in back then) precedent for restrictions on having loaded guns in that I wouldn't be surprised if there was some ordinance in colonial america or just after whereby you couldn't have balls and powder loaded in the gun or with you at the same time.

What I am most eager to see is how and whether any court will down laws requiring a license/permit to carry a gun, or even own a gun at all. That is what NY's law is based on. Without a carry license, you cannot anywhere without special permission. With the premises license, you can't even buy or own. One silver lining in the CCIA law is that you can now shoot at a range with no license if you're with an instructor.....without having to be between teh ages of 14 and 21.
I'm also interested it what firearms convictions and license denials/suspensions/revocations are going to be challenged and overturned based on Bruen and the increased level of scrutiny when it comes to restrictions on 2nd Amendment rights. Red flag laws where firearms are confiscated prior to a conviction, denials based on non-violent crimes committed that were not felonies, etc. We had the gentleman in Maryland, 20 miles from his home, that stopped a violent crime and was arrested because he was carrying on a Virginia license. What other Constitutional right (1st, 4th, 5th, etc.) is curtailed because you cross a state border?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,217 Posts
I wonder what Hochul gave Antonyuk to turn him into a traitor to the cause?
I talked to a lawyer who told me she knows the lawyer who was in on that first suit that was dismissed for no standing and she said Mr, Antonyuk didnt give a real cause under cross examination only went as far as to say he may do certain things that the CCIA would restrict him doing not that he is going to do them and apparently that was enough for the judge to do what he did.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,212 Posts
I'm also interested it what firearms convictions and license denials/suspensions/revocations are going to be challenged and overturned based on Bruen and the increased level of scrutiny when it comes to restrictions on 2nd Amendment rights. Red flag laws where firearms are confiscated prior to a conviction, denials based on non-violent crimes committed that were not felonies, etc. We had the gentleman in Maryland, 20 miles from his home, that stopped a violent crime and was arrested because he was carrying on a Virginia license. What other Constitutional right (1st, 4th, 5th, etc.) is curtailed because you cross a state border?
Totally. The two-part and other interest balancing tests that got chucked over Bruen are the parts that got me most excited. And since we have circuit courts in the country that will follow the law, the case law, and the Constitution, even if our 2nd Circuit keeps samin', we will have split decisions and make it more likely to have the SCOTUS grant cert.
 
41 - 56 of 56 Posts
Top