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SASI Firearms Chairman, LISAPA Training Committee
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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Yea, I have no idea. How would anyone know if a rifle is purchased on or before that date. I shoot with my kids all the time. My one daughter is only 19. My son just turned 21. I guess he needs to apply and wait 2yrs. I will be paying for 4 of us to go through training every 3 yrs.
As I understand the "training" "requirement," you need do it only once but, even then, only if you want an "unrestricted" license, provided the court does not strike it down, first.

Since all LEGAL handgun, rifle, shotgun and "other" sales now go through an FFL (compliments of the unSAFE Act), they can track when a specific item was last sold, used or new.
Gary
 

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What was said was that "if the licensee has a business endorsement, the license will be renewed, for 5 years, not 3. Non business handgun licenses will be renewed for 3 years." Be it a Business Carry or a Business Premises, the 5 years rule will apply, is what was said.
Gary
They have the authority to extend something like a 'business carry' for 5yrs? Isn't a 'business carry' an (f) license? And presumably exempt it from the CCIA restrictions? Because that seems to be where it's going. I'm not saying that you are claiming this, just seems to be in that direction and they won't let go of that 'proper cause'. Interesting.
 

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They have the authority to extend something like a 'business carry' for 5yrs? Isn't a 'business carry' an (f) license? And presumably exempt it from the CCIA restrictions? Because that seems to be where it's going. I'm not saying that you are claiming this, just seems to be in that direction and they won't let go of that 'proper cause'. Interesting.
The (f) license is to have a carry without regarding to employment. I believe business is a type (b) license with the description "(b) have and possess in his place of business by a merchant or storekeeper;" although I do believe that extends to carrying in the course of business.
 

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I've been thinking this through, the end result could mean Nassau residents cant buy SA in Suffolk and vice versa.

For Suffolk residents, you wont have an endorsement on your license as its treated like a pistol. Without a SA endorsement, you can't buy anywhere else in the state except Suffolk.

For Nassau residents, you will have endorsement, but you won't be able to pick up your rifle until its listed on your pistol license. Since you cannot get it listed on your license, you can never get it.

Add one more lawsuit to the mix. Its getting beyond stupid.
 

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This new law will raise the prices at Local Gun shops now. Those who are new to shooting or hunting, looking for a new semi automatic rifle will experience a very long road to getting a semi automatic rifle license.
 

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3) for the purposes of obtaining an “unrestricted” handgun license, Suffolk PD will recognize training certificates,
It has been my understanding that there are few"unrestricted" licenses. I thought such licenses are full-carry at all times, not business carry.
 

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The (f) license is to have a carry without regarding to employment. I believe business is a type (b) license with the description "(b) have and possess in his place of business by a merchant or storekeeper;" although I do believe that extends to carrying in the course of business.
Paul, respectfully, we went down this road before. "(b)" is Business Premises only, no carry outside of the business. Which is why it's not affected by the restrictions in the CCIA.

"(f)" with a "business" endorsement is a carry license (f) that has been restricted to carrying only for "business purposes". It required a proper cause check, to be issued with that endorsement and it was determined that the applicant not only needed a license to carry for target shooting and hunting, but in addition, needed it in the course of business. Many of those licenses are for "target shooting, hunting and business purposes". They are again, (f) licenses and there is an issue with business people badly affected by the CCIA.

The (b) Business Premise license did not require a proper cause check and is shall issue.

The licenses that were mentioned at this meeting, were restricted carry licenses. But it seems like since "business" endorsed licenses are now (b) licenses, which do not require training and are 5yr licenses. It is possible that now they will try to emulate NYC and permit a Premise license with a limited amount of carrying....but even then, NYC Premise licenses have to be in a locked box.
 

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Paul, respectfully, we went down this road before. "(b)" is Business Premises only, no carry outside of the business. Which is why it's not affected by the restrictions in the CCIA.

"(f)" with a "business" endorsement is a carry license (f) that has been restricted to carrying only for "business purposes". It required a proper cause check, to be issued with that endorsement and it was determined that the applicant not only needed a license to carry for target shooting and hunting, but in addition, needed it in the course of business. Many of those licenses are for "target shooting, hunting and business purposes". They are again, (f) licenses and there is an issue with business people badly affected by the CCIA.

The (b) Business Premise license did not require a proper cause check and is shall issue.

The licenses that were mentioned at this meeting, were restricted carry licenses. But it seems like since "business" endorsed licenses are now (b) licenses, which do not require training and are 5yr licenses. It is possible that now they will try to emulate NYC and permit a Premise license with a limited amount of carrying....but even then, NYC Premise licenses have to be in a locked box.
No disrespect received.

Who provides the endorsement? I'm going by what is stated in the penal law so I've not heard of an endorsement added to an (f) type license for business carry. Beyond that it would be contrary to the definition of an (f) license in the penal law (without regard to employment). That said if you say it's so I'll assume it's so.

Beyond that your statement "The (b) Business Premise license did not require a proper cause check and is shall issue" is not accurate. To obtain that license you had to show proper cause, the proper cause being owner or employed in a business that met certain criteria. In fact ANY request to give a reason for wanting a license is a proper cause request.

The 2nd Amendment is a fundamental, individual right for which a demonstration of proper cause is not required. There should be no discussion of why I want a license. The process should be simply establishing an individual is not a prohibited person. If you're not a prohibited person you have the right to own a firearm, period.
 

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No disrespect received.

Who provides the endorsement? I'm going by what is stated in the penal law so I've not heard of an endorsement added to an (f) type license for business carry. Beyond that it would be contrary to the definition of an (f) license in the penal law (without regard to employment). That said if you say it's so I'll assume it's so.

Beyond that your statement "The (b) Business Premise license did not require a proper cause check and is shall issue" is not accurate. To obtain that license you had to show proper cause, the proper cause being owner or employed in a business that met certain criteria. In fact ANY request to give a reason for wanting a license is a proper cause request.

The 2nd Amendment is a fundamental, individual right for which a demonstration of proper cause is not required. There should be no discussion of why I want a license. The process should be simply establishing an individual is not a prohibited person. If you're not a prohibited person you have the right to own a firearm, period.
Paul, we all understand that this is a fundamental right. But this is not about that, it is about once again that a Premise license even for Business, is not a carry license. What Nassau and Suffolk normally issue for business, is a restricted Carry license under para (f) with a 'business', 'target' and 'hunting' endorsements... In Suffolk I presume its a Sportsman license with a 'business' endorsement. I don't live there so I don't know.

'Proper cause' in Article 400 was only required for an (f) license. It specifically mentioned that term and requirement under what is now, the old Article 400, para. (f). The 'proper cause' that licensees proved in order to obtain a Carry license with a 'business endorsement'. It is the only license type that 'proper cause' was specifically required. Most people only proved a need for target shooting and hunting. Upstate many people proved a need for a pistol while hiking.... it's all under para. (f).

The (b) license is not a carry license. It only permits a business owner to possess a pistol on the business premises and is shall issue.

NYC created an enhanced Premise license under Giuliani, so that it was only a Premise license but a licensee could take it to the range or hunting. The old now defunct NYC Target license was a restricted Carry license. Giuliani did away with that license to stop people from carrying outside of the restrictions and not being able to charge them with a crime.

"A license for a pistol or revolver, other than an assault weapon or a disguised gun, shall be issued to (a) have and possess in his dwelling by a householder; (b) have and possess in his place of business by a merchant or storekeeper;" Type (a) and (b) licenses are Premise licenses only and are shall issue and other than having a domicile or business in New York, you didn't have to prove you needed a pistol.

"....(f) have and carry concealed, without regard to employment or place of possession, by any person when proper cause exists for the issuance thereof;" This is the type of license most of us have...we proved a need (proper cause) to possess and carry a pistol for target shooting and hunting.... business persons also proved an additional need to carry for business purposes. Ok so now SCOTUS overturned that requirement. But the new CCIA restrictions, training and reduced license term is pertaining to para. (f) licenses. So my question was, is Suffolk now considering an enhanced Business Premise license like NYC? Because they are saying that a license with a 'business' endorsement will have a 5yr license term.... that would only mean they are now Premise licenses under para. (b).
 

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Paul, we all understand that this is a fundamental right. But this is not about that, it is about once again that a Premise license even for Business, is not a carry license. What Nassau and Suffolk normally issue for business, is a restricted Carry license under para (f) with a 'business', 'target' and 'hunting' endorsements... In Suffolk I presume its a Sportsman license with a 'business' endorsement. I don't live there so I don't know.

'Proper cause' in Article 400 was only required for an (f) license. It specifically mentioned that term and requirement under what is now, the old Article 400, para. (f). The 'proper cause' that licensees proved in order to obtain a Carry license with a 'business endorsement'. It is the only license type that 'proper cause' was specifically required. Most people only proved a need for target shooting and hunting. Upstate many people proved a need for a pistol while hiking.... it's all under para. (f).

The (b) license is not a carry license. It only permits a business owner to possess a pistol on the business premises and is shall issue.

NYC created an enhanced Premise license under Giuliani, so that it was only a Premise license but a licensee could take it to the range or hunting. The old now defunct NYC Target license was a restricted Carry license. Giuliani did away with that license to stop people from carrying outside of the restrictions and not being able to charge them with a crime.

"A license for a pistol or revolver, other than an assault weapon or a disguised gun, shall be issued to (a) have and possess in his dwelling by a householder; (b) have and possess in his place of business by a merchant or storekeeper;" Type (a) and (b) licenses are Premise licenses only and are shall issue and other than having a domicile or business in New York, you didn't have to prove you needed a pistol.

"....(f) have and carry concealed, without regard to employment or place of possession, by any person when proper cause exists for the issuance thereof;" This is the type of license most of us have...we proved a need (proper cause) to possess and carry a pistol for target shooting and hunting.... business persons also proved an additional need to carry for business purposes. Ok so now SCOTUS overturned that requirement. But the new CCIA restrictions, training and reduced license term is pertaining to para. (f) licenses. So my question was, is Suffolk now considering an enhanced Business Premise license like NYC? Because they are saying that a license with a 'business' endorsement will have a 5yr license term.... that would only mean they are now Premise licenses under para. (b).
I understand how Suffolk defines proper cause. The issue is the Supreme Court's definition of proper cause.

The fundamental issue is whether ANY CAUSE has to be given in order to exercise your 2nd Amendment rights. That cause could be stated as premise, employment, business, hunting, target, etc. All of these check marks on an application are statements of proper cause which the Supreme Court has said are not required in order to exercise your 2nd Amendment rights.

So the fact that Suffolk County will issue a license (severely restricted) if you check off the appropriate box on an application is still not compliance with the Supreme Court ruling. The Supreme Court ruling says there should be no requirement to state a "proper cause" when for applying for a license.
 

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time to leave this ridiculous state. The politicians are supposed to serve the needs of their constituents and that’s just not that case anymore. And sadly, we can’t do anything about it. These blatantly party agenda serving politicians will continue to be voted in over and over by the mindless people who side with them.
 

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Can someone explain the semiautomatic aspect again? I wasn't aware a new "license" for rifles was part of the wicked witch's concealed carry law. I own several rifles, is it a problem if I or someone else uses them at the range now?
 

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SASI Firearms Chairman, LISAPA Training Committee
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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Can someone explain the semiautomatic aspect again? I wasn't aware a new "license" for rifles was part of the wicked witch's concealed carry law. I own several rifles, is it a problem if I or someone else uses them at the range now?
No. You can use them, just as you always have. You can even loan them, to another person, WHILE HUNTING but not lend them otherwise. You, as the owner, before that portion of the CCIA went into effect, do not need any additional license, to own or use what you already have. Only those, who wish to purchase a semi-auto, on or after 9/4/22, will need a semi-auto license or a handgun license. If you need to purchase another semi-auto, then you will need to either add it to your handgun licenses or, if you don't have a handgun license, apply for, then wait to receive, one before you can buy another semi-auto.
Gary
 

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No. You can use them, just as you always have. You can even loan them, to another person, WHILE HUNTING but not lend them otherwise. You, as the owner, before that portion of the CCIA went into effect, do not need any additional license, to own or use what you already have. Only those, who wish to purchase a semi-auto, on or after 9/4/22, will need a semi-auto license or a handgun license. If you need to purchase another semi-auto, then you will need to either add it to your handgun licenses or, if you don't have a handgun license, apply for, then wait to receive, one before you can buy another semi-auto.
Gary
Gary, has anyone in the firearms industry proposed a lawsuit for this new law which essentially causes harm to a business.
 

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Gary,

For the sake of clarity- when I read the CCIA- it requires a purchase permit for semi automatic rifles- however, it does not require a trip to the police department to add the serial number to your pistol permit.

Is that an additional requirement imposed by Suffolk County or did I misread your post? Thanks
 

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Gary,

For the sake of clarity- when I read the CCIA- it requires a purchase permit for semi automatic rifles- however, it does not require a trip to the police department to add the serial number to your pistol permit.

Is that an additional requirement imposed by Suffolk County or did I misread your post? Thanks
I am curious about this too. I was just at DSI Sunday, I should have asked. Maybe we should all buy 10 stripped lowers.
 

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SASI Firearms Chairman, LISAPA Training Committee
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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Gary,

For the sake of clarity- when I read the CCIA- it requires a purchase permit for semi automatic rifles- however, it does not require a trip to the police department to add the serial number to your pistol permit.

Is that an additional requirement imposed by Suffolk County or did I misread your post? Thanks
Nope.You did not misread or misinterpret. You have it 100% correct. That's how SCPD is handling the issue. How the Sheriff's office or NCPD is going to handle it, I've not yet heard.
Gary
 
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