Cops really gotta tase a 61 year old guy twice and then mace him? I dunno about that but I wasn't there. I would like to think one tasing and/or macing woulda been sufficient to allow me and my partner to subdue the guy if necessary.
The force continuum is the force continuum. There was no "luck" involved with the guy getting tased vs not getting shot. It was most likely an officer seeing that deadly physical force wasn't justified and appropriately using the TASER. The "too much, too soon" is the choice of the officer. Recruits sit in academy class for 6-8 months with field training. They're rigorously tested, quizzed, eval'd and held to standards. A majority do the right thing. I'd posit that what you perceive as "too much, too soon" may in some instances be the correct response and win the fight. Until one has to make these decision in mere split seconds it seems easy to monday morning QB them and pick them apart unfairly after the incident.Captain Will said:@sherm66.
Please note that I said I was not there, but noted it SOUNDS like it may have been excessive. Your point is taken, but at the same time if you tell us that no cop has ever used excessive force then "Please...." right back at ya.
Who, on God's green earth would say no cop has ever done something excessive/brutal/abusive? That'd be ig'nant. I've seen plenty of PD follies in my 20 years in EMS. Nowhere did I say cops are without fault or misdeeds. I'm unsure where you inferred that. It's kinda sad that unless one couches their argument with caveats and apologies that you get to jump to the conclusion that I'm completely pro cop or ignorant of the fact that cops do wrong too. To the contrary, I teach a class on Sudden In-Custody Death Syndrome to most of the new hires and supervisors at my job. There's plenty of good "what not to do" stuff on Youtube, in the newspaper, case law, court documents and media outlets that I use in my lectures where cops have done wrong. It's one of the best training tools we have.
Sometimes an individual situation may indeed be difficult to get under control, at other times, cops may abuse tasing because of the relative protection it offers them. Either way, totally appropriate when used in the right place in the force continuum. Police are perfectly withing their rights to protect themselves from assault and injury. Certtainly, if your culture is that tasing is lower on the continuum of forceNot culteure, but rules and regs, and the force continuum dictate where the TASER is applied than laying hands on a suspect and at the same time you are less likely to get punched in the facre, there is not the natural deterrent (fear of injury) to mitigate a physical confrontation,This argument is kind of akin to the "Who's morally superior? The woman lying dead and raped in the alley or the living woman who defended herself with a firearm?" poster I saw recently. Who's morally superior? The cop getting his ass kicked because he went hands on with somone stronger than him or the cop controlling a subject with the push of a button, thus saving himself an ass kicking? just whip out the taser if somebody is unwilling to follow your verbal commands and shock the living snot out of them.In some states the TASER is used before OC when a subject fails to comply with the officer's verbal commands. The officer doesn't even have to be in fear of being assaulted. Maybe a few times. And why not capsacin for good measure? Well, in case of the latter, they usually try to avoid it because then you have to handle a contaminated suspect, and it's very easy to get it on you, your uniform, your hands, the wheel of your patrol car- then wipe your eye hours later and it feels like somebody stuck a knife in it. No such physical penalty for use of a taser. Usually there is some administrative call to justify the use of the taser, but that varies as well. You're using the slippery slope argument, that it's laziness and moral decay that begets cops going all willy nilly with the TASER and zapping everyone they run across. It's a silly argument as the stats don't bear it out. Do shithead cops make the news when they taze a granny, or a 10 year old kid? Sure. But it ain't the norm
Law enforcement is a tough task- but one that still requires accountability. Groups like "Copwatch" exist for a reason, and that's to challenge that accountability so that the public knows that they are not the victims of a police state. I've done some traveling. The US is the last place I'd consider a "police state." And the Bradys, Handgun Control Inc, the VPC and Ceasefire Inc exist to keep you deadly gun owners in check? I'll lump them in with Copwatch any day. Copwatch is far from impartial and does just what any anti gun zealot would do to gun owners only they do to cops. And who needs them anyways. The newspapers and TV do a fine job of ripping the police regardless of the facts. But nice try.If you are going to use a taser or OC then you need to be held accountable for that decision and not use them indiscriminately.Again, most don't. A few do and give the rest a bad name. The advent of technologies like the dash cam really go a long way to helping everybody by providing an evidentiary record that did not exist before, and was often a narriative of several cops vs the account of some drunk fool.Hey! Dig it! Something we agree on. I'm a fan of the cams in TASERs too.
Somewhere along that force contiinuum there is a point at which it becomes "to much, too soon". Luckily, they did not just shoot the guy, but less than lethal methods may lend themselves to be deployed for the sake or mere convenience rather than necessity where accountability or supervision is lacking.