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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am going to court Friday, but only to watch. I am going to join other concerned pro-gun folks in watching the trial of a Southern Ohio man that has been charged with disorderly conduct and obstruction of justice while open carrying in a Wal-Mart store in Waverly, Ohio.

This happened over 13 months ago and he is just now getting his day in court. Apparently the court was surprised that he refused just to plea to a nothing charge and make it go away and instead demanded a jury trial. The prosecution has thrown up numerous roadblocks to actually trying the case but he will finally have his say.

Personally I am not a fan of open carry but I would never want to see the option removed and I do not like to see someone harassed by a Barney Fife for doing something that is perfectly legal to do. Every pro-gun victory is a victory regardless of how you feel about the issue.

He is represented by good pro-gun attorney's and the law as well as an Attorney General's opinion is on his side so I should be able to log on and report a win to you Friday! I am guessing (but have no way of knowing) that these attorneys are seeking a precedent to back up the Attorney General's opinion.

Here is a description of the events from his wife posted on Ohioans For Concealed Carry Forums some months ago (I am sure his attorney would have instructed him not to describe the events himself in an open forum):

My husband was charged with Obstruction of Official Business because he was Open Carrying in WalMart when a police officer approached him and I and immediately demanded to see his CHL. My husband told him that OC did not require a CHL. He then demanded to see a state issued ID from him, and my husband immediately verbally identified himself to the cop. As a matter of fact, the cop demanded to see a state issued picture ID 3 or 4 times and each time Bill verbally identified himself and finally he produced a drivers license at about 33 seconds into the encounter according to the video tape of the encounter. You can clearly see him handing the drivers license over to the cop at approximately 33 seconds. He then informed us that WalMart was posted no guns and my husband corected him and even the store security people told the cop that he was wrong.
Then my husband was asked to hand his gun to the cop and he instead turned and raised his right hand out of the way to allow the cop to remove his gun as my husband told him that unneccessary handling of a loaded firearm was unsafe. The cop took the gun out and attempted to clear it (Model 1911 Colt Defender) and when he didnt know how to clear it he then told my husband to clear it and hand it back to him. My husband refused, as a litle while earlier, the cop told Bill that he was fully trained in firearm handling when Bill asked if he had ever handled a 1911 before. Bill then said that since you are a fully trained expert, clear the gun yourself cause In not touching it. Bill was then placed under arrest for disorderly conduct. At the police station, the cop told me that he was arrested for obstruction for taking too long to produce a photo ID when demanded to by the cop, and was arrested for disorderly for having the audacity to look the cop in the eye when talking to him (cop said that was a threatening maneuver on my husbands part, and that Bill was loud in the store causing a scene, but my husband has some hearing loss in the left ear, and he normally tallks louder and moves his hands when he talks and talking louder is pretty normal for people with hearing loss)

At the suppression hearing, the cop said under oath that me or my husband was doing nothing wrong and there was no reasonable articulate suspicion that we were either going to commit a crime, had committed one, or were in the process of committing one. Our position is that the Terry stop was non consensual as the cop first approached us and demanded to see Bills CHL. The judge never even ruled if the stop was legal or not, she just stated that the cop was allowed to demand to see a state issued ID to see who he was dealing with and that if an ID made him feel better, then that was all she was concerned with.
So now, we wait for a court date and fight it out in court
A few of you on here know Bill and Im sure that noone here would ever think he would do anything illegal. He was complying with the cops order to "ID yourself to me" by verbally Id ing himself, but that was not near good enough for the cop, although the Ohio Supreme Court says differently, due to the RAS not being met.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I am going to court Friday, but only to watch. I am going to join other concerned pro-gun folks in watching the trial of a Southern Ohio man that has been charged with disorderly conduct and obstruction of justice while open carrying in a Wal-Mart store in Waverly, Ohio.

This happened over 13 months ago and he is just now getting his day in court. Apparently the court was surprised that he refused just to plea to a nothing charge and make it go away and instead demanded a jury trial. The prosecution has thrown up numerous roadblocks to actually trying the case but he will finally have his say.

Personally I am not a fan of open carry but I would never want to see the option removed and I do not like to see someone harassed by a Barney Fife for doing something that is perfectly legal to do. Every pro-gun victory is a victory regardless of how you feel about the issue.

He is represented by good pro-gun attorney's and the law as well as an Attorney General's opinion is on his side so I should be able to log on and report a win to you Friday! I am guessing (but have no way of knowing) that these attorneys are seeking a precedent to back up the Attorney General's opinion.

Here is a description of the events from his wife posted on Ohioans For Concealed Carry Forums some months ago (I am sure his attorney would have instructed him not to describe the events himself in an open forum):

My husband was charged with Obstruction of Official Business because he was Open Carrying in WalMart when a police officer approached him and I and immediately demanded to see his CHL. My husband told him that OC did not require a CHL. He then demanded to see a state issued ID from him, and my husband immediately verbally identified himself to the cop. As a matter of fact, the cop demanded to see a state issued picture ID 3 or 4 times and each time Bill verbally identified himself and finally he produced a drivers license at about 33 seconds into the encounter according to the video tape of the encounter. You can clearly see him handing the drivers license over to the cop at approximately 33 seconds. He then informed us that WalMart was posted no guns and my husband corected him and even the store security people told the cop that he was wrong.
Then my husband was asked to hand his gun to the cop and he instead turned and raised his right hand out of the way to allow the cop to remove his gun as my husband told him that unneccessary handling of a loaded firearm was unsafe. The cop took the gun out and attempted to clear it (Model 1911 Colt Defender) and when he didnt know how to clear it he then told my husband to clear it and hand it back to him. My husband refused, as a litle while earlier, the cop told Bill that he was fully trained in firearm handling when Bill asked if he had ever handled a 1911 before. Bill then said that since you are a fully trained expert, clear the gun yourself cause In not touching it. Bill was then placed under arrest for disorderly conduct. At the police station, the cop told me that he was arrested for obstruction for taking too long to produce a photo ID when demanded to by the cop, and was arrested for disorderly for having the audacity to look the cop in the eye when talking to him (cop said that was a threatening maneuver on my husbands part, and that Bill was loud in the store causing a scene, but my husband has some hearing loss in the left ear, and he normally tallks louder and moves his hands when he talks and talking louder is pretty normal for people with hearing loss)

At the suppression hearing, the cop said under oath that me or my husband was doing nothing wrong and there was no reasonable articulate suspicion that we were either going to commit a crime, had committed one, or were in the process of committing one. Our position is that the Terry stop was non consensual as the cop first approached us and demanded to see Bills CHL. The judge never even ruled if the stop was legal or not, she just stated that the cop was allowed to demand to see a state issued ID to see who he was dealing with and that if an ID made him feel better, then that was all she was concerned with.
So now, we wait for a court date and fight it out in court
A few of you on here know Bill and Im sure that noone here would ever think he would do anything illegal. He was complying with the cops order to "ID yourself to me" by verbally Id ing himself, but that was not near good enough for the cop, although the Ohio Supreme Court says differently, due to the RAS not being met.
 

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Ya know, when a cop asks me for ID I get out my drivers' license, and if he demanded I hand over my gun I'd ask if we could perhaps walk back to store security or something, but telling the cop to take it out of MY holster and maybe getting shot through the femoral artery does not sound too bright.

Removing the mag, handing it to the cop, and then clearing the gun is also smarter IMO that starting with "Oh,m you said you were AN EXPERT so YOU CLEAR IT!!!"

It may be LEGAL to OC in the Ohio WallyWorld but as comedian Chris Rock would say, "That don't make it a good idea!!"

..and I'm not just saying this becuse I'm from the PRNY,
 

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Ya know, when a cop asks me for ID I get out my drivers' license, and if he demanded I hand over my gun I'd ask if we could perhaps walk back to store security or something, but telling the cop to take it out of MY holster and maybe getting shot through the femoral artery does not sound too bright.

Removing the mag, handing it to the cop, and then clearing the gun is also smarter IMO that starting with "Oh,m you said you were AN EXPERT so YOU CLEAR IT!!!"

It may be LEGAL to OC in the Ohio WallyWorld but as comedian Chris Rock would say, "That don't make it a good idea!!"

..and I'm not just saying this becuse I'm from the PRNY,
 

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Can't wait to see how this turns out. Wouldn't be surprised if the prosecutor just drops the case to avoid further embarrassment.
 

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Can't wait to see how this turns out. Wouldn't be surprised if the prosecutor just drops the case to avoid further embarrassment.
 

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Why is everyone so afraid of cops? And how is he a perp if he did nothing wrong. Unless telling a cop he is not doing his job correctly is against the law in Ohio. Sounds like the "perp" knew the laws better than the officer.
 

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Why is everyone so afraid of cops? And how is he a perp if he did nothing wrong. Unless telling a cop he is not doing his job correctly is against the law in Ohio. Sounds like the "perp" knew the laws better than the officer.
 

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According to his wife's version of events................................her husband did nothing wrong........................and should never have been arrested.
 

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According to his wife's version of events................................her husband did nothing wrong........................and should never have been arrested.
 

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If the story the wife is saying is true, then the cop is wrong on this one.
Oh, and I really don't blame the guy for not allowing himself to touch the gun. The cop he was dealing with probably would say he was reaching for his weapon to shoot him with.

I'm going to watch this case closely myself.
 

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If the story the wife is saying is true, then the cop is wrong on this one.
Oh, and I really don't blame the guy for not allowing himself to touch the gun. The cop he was dealing with probably would say he was reaching for his weapon to shoot him with.

I'm going to watch this case closely myself.
 

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+1

Postal Bob said:
Can't wait to see how this turns out. Wouldn't be surprised if the prosecutor just drops the case to avoid further embarrassment.
 

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Postal Bob said:
Can't wait to see how this turns out. Wouldn't be surprised if the prosecutor just drops the case to avoid further embarrassment.
 
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