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Now an Ex NYer
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I use facts and logic
 

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Banned
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More Islamophobic BS on LIF, confusing Islam with the actors of the "Islamic State" i.e. New Caliphate- which is like confusing Irish people with RIRA firebombers.
Example from people who have no ties to ISIS, but are defending, or at least rationalizing, the attack in Texas:

The discussion we have to have is: When does free speech become hate speech, and when does hate speech become incitement to violence?" Ms. Salem said. "Free speech is not the same as responsible speech."

""It's a gimmick," he said. "Pamela Geller and people like her have no power. All they can do is cause commotion and bait people into things.""

www.nytimes.com/2015/05/07/us/muslims-garland-texas.html?_r=0

Apparently it was Geller's fault because she "incited" violence and "baited" those innocent muslims into attacking.

This is just one example. How do these people become 'radicalized' so frequently if Islam is a religion of peace? Why aren't people from any other major religion doing this stuff? Do that many people 'misinterpret' the Quran?
 

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Yeah, he's a big-time atheist but most of his ire is appropriately directed at Islam. Although, I wonder what he has to say about the new communist Pope.
This Pope is definitely questionable. He seems like a progressive socialist. Also, I'm not sure why Pope Francis is commenting on political dealings like climate change and capitalism...he's supposed to comment on matters of faith and only on politics when it directly involves Catholicism.

Ultimately, everything he's saying is just his opinion. Catholics are under no obligation to follow what he says in that regard.
 

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Borders, Language, Culture
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4,738 Posts
More Islamophobic BS on LIF, confusing Islam with the actors of the "Islamic State" i.e. New Caliphate- which is like confusing Irish people with RIRA firebombers.
The small minority of which you speak:

World Public Opinion: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans
32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans
41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans
38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans
83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)
62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)
42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)


http://www.thereligi...inion-polls.htm
 

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Now an Ex NYer
Joined
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24,978 Posts
The small minority of which you speak:

World Public Opinion: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans
32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans
41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans
38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans
83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)
62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)
42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)


http://www.thereligi...inion-polls.htm
Yup, the second number is more important (IMO)
 

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Grand Poobah
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21,090 Posts
Yeah, he's a big-time atheist but most of his ire is appropriately directed at Islam. Although, I wonder what he has to say about the new communist Pope.
Oh No!
He's an Atheist!
That's awesome. Liberals love atheists. That must pissthem off even more.

I'm not an atheists. So I must hate him.
Wait, I'm not a liberal and I believe people have a right to choose whatever they wish to believe in or not.
So I guess I don't care that he's an atheist. That's his business.
 

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19,459 Posts
Example from people who have no ties to ISIS, but are defending, or at least rationalizing, the attack in Texas:

The discussion we have to have is: When does free speech become hate speech, and when does hate speech become incitement to violence?" Ms. Salem said. "Free speech is not the same as responsible speech."

""It's a gimmick," he said. "Pamela Geller and people like her have no power. All they can do is cause commotion and bait people into things.""

www.nytimes.com/2015/05/07/us/muslims-garland-texas.html?_r=0

Apparently it was Geller's fault because she "incited" violence and "baited" those innocent muslims into attacking.

This is just one example. How do these people become 'radicalized' so frequently if Islam is a religion of peace? Why aren't people from any other major religion doing this stuff? Do that many people 'misinterpret' the Quran?
Well, since you asked, my opinion is that hate speech is a protected right (which is differentiable from RIGHT, don't confuse the two) but actual actions you should be held accountable for. However, I am not a big fan of the whole "hate crime" thing because if you drag a guy to death behind your pickup because he is black, gay, Jewish, or simply because you are a sociopathic POS, I think your punishment should be equal- the nature of the actual crime is the same, But I tend to be an analytical person that tries to couch everything in logic- that's my issue. You asked.

So out of all of these groups, the big one, if we accept these numbers, is 83% of Palestinians "approve" of attacks on Americans- with the USA being close allies of Israel, the Palestinians' number one enemy, this is surprising? But howe many Palestininians ATTACK America? Even on one thousandth of one percent?

On this forum, I see things like people painting guns up to be some sort of "crusader weapon" for killing muslims and putting pork rinds on the bullets to religiously insult someone of Islamic faith. Well OK- protected free speech. But I have a feeling that at least around here, from the sentiments I've seen expressed, that at LEAST 83% of LIF members "approve" of attacks on Muslims. Maybe we should run that poll- but it seems to me that there is a real agenda here to not only accuse Muslims in general for the actions of some Islamic state extremists, but also to try to religiously denigrate and call for violence against people simply because of what faith they follow, absent any evil-doing on their part. And if somebody acts like that, I am not going to attack them, but I might "approve of an attack" ON them, like if the Westboro Baptist Church people got beat up during their "free speech" I'd say, "Well, they probably had it coming!" Just something to think about- and I'll continue to take crap and be unpopular here for speaking up for Muslims because I feel somebody's gotta do it here. The Muslim families I know here and abroad love their kids too, I am not saying I am on board with Sharia, but different cultures do things differently- a lot of people in the USA unfortunately don't understand that because their exposure to other cultures is ordering Chinese or vacationing to Club Med. Send your kids to a foreign exchange program, have them take a year and travel, see the world, experience different cultures. Then they can appreciate what this country is about, yet also be aware that everybody does not do things like us- and that's OK.
 

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Now an Ex NYer
Joined
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24,978 Posts
Well, since you asked, my opinion is that hate speech is a protected right (which is differentiable from RIGHT, don't confuse the two) but actual actions you should be held accountable for. However, I am not a big fan of the whole "hate crime" thing because if you drag a guy to death behind your pickup because he is black, gay, Jewish, or simply because you are a sociopathic POS, I think your punishment should be equal- the nature of the actual crime is the same, But I tend to be an analytical person that tries to couch everything in logic- that's my issue. You asked.

So out of all of these groups, the big one, if we accept these numbers, is 83% of Palestinians "approve" of attacks on Americans- with the USA being close allies of Israel, the Palestinians' number one enemy, this is surprising? But howe many Palestininians ATTACK America? Even on one thousandth of one percent?

On this forum, I see things like people painting guns up to be some sort of "crusader weapon" for killing muslims and putting pork rinds on the bullets to religiously insult someone of Islamic faith. Well OK- protected free speech. But I have a feeling that at least around here, from the sentiments I've seen expressed, that at LEAST 83% of LIF members "approve" of attacks on Muslims. Maybe we should run that poll- but it seems to me that there is a real agenda here to not only accuse Muslims in general for the actions of some Islamic state extremists, but also to try to religiously denigrate and call for violence against people simply because of what faith they follow, absent any evil-doing on their part. And if somebody acts like that, I am not going to attack them, but I might "approve of an attack" ON them, like if the Westboro Baptist Church people got beat up during their "free speech" I'd say, "Well, they probably had it coming!" Just something to think about- and I'll continue to take crap and be unpopular here for speaking up for Muslims because I feel somebody's gotta do it here. The Muslim families I know here and abroad love their kids too, I am not saying I am on board with Sharia, but different cultures do things differently- a lot of people in the USA unfortunately don't understand that because their exposure to other cultures is ordering Chinese or vacationing to Club Med. Send your kids to a foreign exchange program, have them take a year and travel, see the world, experience different cultures. Then they can appreciate what this country is about, yet also be aware that everybody does not do things like us- and that's OK.
I have a bit of experience with different parts of the world and the cultures found there. I have no problem with any religion as long as it isn't hurting anyone- I do not care whose imaginary friend is better. If folks want to practice their religion they should be free to do so without interference from government or the population at large. When the majority of the followers of a religion are ok with killing others in the name of that religion, I have a real problem with that.

As far as advocating the use of pork-laced bullets etc.I am not attacking the religion by doing so, I am using effective means to dissuade future combatants from joining in the conflict. Black Jack Pershing had it right.

I also have a huge problem with the whole "hate crime" line of thinking, the actions should be the factor considered, we already have depraved indifference etc. for the severity, it is too easy to stretch hate crime to hate speech and hate thought.

You talk of percentages etc that actually do something against percentages that support it. Ok, let's play.Was Nazism bad? Only a small percentage of Nazi party members actually did anything bad.
 

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Borders, Language, Culture
Joined
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4,738 Posts
Well, since you asked, my opinion is that hate speech is a protected right (which is differentiable from RIGHT, don't confuse the two) but actual actions you should be held accountable for. However, I am not a big fan of the whole "hate crime" thing because if you drag a guy to death behind your pickup because he is black, gay, Jewish, or simply because you are a sociopathic POS, I think your punishment should be equal- the nature of the actual crime is the same, But I tend to be an analytical person that tries to couch everything in logic- that's my issue. You asked.

So out of all of these groups, the big one, if we accept these numbers, is 83% of Palestinians "approve" of attacks on Americans- with the USA being close allies of Israel, the Palestinians' number one enemy, this is surprising? But howe many Palestininians ATTACK America? Even on one thousandth of one percent?

On this forum, I see things like people painting guns up to be some sort of "crusader weapon" for killing muslims and putting pork rinds on the bullets to religiously insult someone of Islamic faith. Well OK- protected free speech. But I have a feeling that at least around here, from the sentiments I've seen expressed, that at LEAST 83% of LIF members "approve" of attacks on Muslims. Maybe we should run that poll- but it seems to me that there is a real agenda here to not only accuse Muslims in general for the actions of some Islamic state extremists, but also to try to religiously denigrate and call for violence against people simply because of what faith they follow, absent any evil-doing on their part. And if somebody acts like that, I am not going to attack them, but I might "approve of an attack" ON them, like if the Westboro Baptist Church people got beat up during their "free speech" I'd say, "Well, they probably had it coming!" Just something to think about- and I'll continue to take crap and be unpopular here for speaking up for Muslims because I feel somebody's gotta do it here. The Muslim families I know here and abroad love their kids too, I am not saying I am on board with Sharia, but different cultures do things differently- a lot of people in the USA unfortunately don't understand that because their exposure to other cultures is ordering Chinese or vacationing to Club Med. Send your kids to a foreign exchange program, have them take a year and travel, see the world, experience different cultures. Then they can appreciate what this country is about, yet also be aware that everybody does not do things like us- and that's OK.
I like that you present a different POV. Your popularity (or lack thereof) or mine for that matter on LIF or anywhere else has nothing to do with truth or the correct course of action. Are all Muslims bad? Certainly not. There is probably a high percentage that know very little about their religion as you can say the same about Christians, Hindus, etc. It is the ideology of Islamic Totalitarianism that is evil & must be stopped & this ideology is supported, at least in a spiritual if not overt manner, by way more Muslims than you are willing to recognize.

In order to demoralize the adherents of an ideology that has global aspirations & millions of followers, it must be crushed. Will 'innocent' Muslims die? Of course, just like 'innocent' Germans & Japanese died in World War 2. The difference is after WW2, Americans didn't fear the Germans or Japanese any more. They were so thoroughly dispirited that they were no longer a threat. There was no special screening at airports or buildings, everyone was happy that the war was conclusively brought to an end.

In our fight against Islamic totalitarianism, we have appeased Iran, in particular, for 30 years. This has only emboldened them more & more. To end this ideology, the adherents & some 'soft' supporters need to be shown the fallacy that is their belief system. I'll leave the details to the US military to decide the course of action. But, Iran needs to be the central target.
 
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Islam is incompatible with the west. While there is a small but vocal minority of patriotards that go too far on Internet forums with dumb pork jokes, we've been battling Muslims since Mohammed was alive and raping children. Letting them into our countries is a mistake and I would kick every last one out given the opportunity, no matter how innocuous some of them might seem.
 
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