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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i have a wasr-10/63 AK that came with a normal muzzle "cap" i guess u can call it, and i want to replace it with the classic AK slant style muzzle break / compensator. problem is, i guess since i have a threaded barrel, the cap thats on mine is spot welded on the bottom.  i stopped into Country Gunsmith in Bohemia today, and he told me its illegal and that he doesnt weld.  so does anyone know a place that can spot weld this thing for me?? im in western suffolk
 

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What did he say was illegal? The original style break/comp?

If what you have is already pinned and welded it will be a bit or work removing it too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Parashooter said:
What did he say was illegal? The original style break/comp?

If what you have is already pinned and welded it will be a bit or work removing it too.
that the threaded barrel is illegal, which it is, unless the cap or brake is permanently attached. thats why it comes welded for NY compliance. but its only a small spot weld on the bottom, which could be pretty easily dremeled or hacksawed out. so to be legal, teh new one would also have to be welded, which he claims he doesnt do. i dont know, i would think a gunsmith and machine shop would have a welder on hand. maybe he just didnt want to be bothered
 

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I think the problem is that for a moment in time he will have rendered it illegal/be in possession of an illegal firearm.

An AR is a different story since you remove the upper and it no longer counts as a firearm. But an AK takes a monster press or an ironworker be headspaced, etc. to R&R the barrel from the reciever.

I think legally you might need to get this done out of state to be 100 percent. Because what's acceptable within the purview of local smiths seems to be aggressively challenced by Nassau and I think that has everyone a bit keyed up right now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
well i would think a gunsmith/FFL would be allowed to do it as long as he doesnt give it back to me in violation.  because remember FFL's can be in possession of weapons that violate to sell to law enforcement. also many of them pin stocks and such which would be the same idea.  it would only be a few minutes to do anyway, the whole barrel wouldnt have to be removed
 

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funny i was just gonna post the same question...... i also have a wasr 10/63 and just got a tapco muzzle brake. I was told at guns and ammo in bohemia that it was illegal to install it ,something about any modification to the rifle is illegal and didnt want to explain further. Everything else ive read it shouldnt be a problem as long as the new muzzle brake is welded, soldered or pinned(permanently attached) .  i am assuming the only problem is that you would be in possesion of a rifle with a threaded barrel for the time between removing it and permanetly attaching the new one? Im also unclear if it can just be welded on without being pinned or if it needs both? Also if i were to tac weld it on with an arc welder would i have to worry about hardening the tip of the barrel and making it more brittle?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
OhSnapitsGreg said:
funny i was just gonna post the same question...... i also have a wasr 10/63 and just got a tapco muzzle brake. I was told at guns and ammo in bohemia that it was illegal to install it ,something about any modification to the rifle is illegal and didnt want to explain further. Everything else ive read it shouldnt be a problem as long as the new muzzle brake is welded, soldered or pinned(permanently attached) . i am assuming the only problem is that you would be in possesion of a rifle with a threaded barrel for the time between removing it and permanetly attaching the new one? Im also unclear if it can just be welded on without being pinned or if it needs both? Also if i were to tac weld it on with an arc welder would i have to worry about hardening the tip of the barrel and making it more brittle?
yea from everything ive read, as long as it is "permanently" attached, its fine. plus, i highly doubt anyone is going to check your rifle that closely unless u get in some other kind of trouble with it.
 

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yes, country gunsmith doesnt weld muzzle brakes, yet sells them... weird.

went thru this whole thing before as well. finally had it done in a couple of minutes without shipping out of state. i advise against what i did, though. i suggest you just ship to adco
 

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If you strip the rifle down to a barreled action you can remove the muzzle nut and still be legal. Once the pistol grip and hardware are removed, you can legaly have a threaded muzzle. just make sure the muzzle device is on permanently before you reassemble.

FFL holders are not all experts. Read up on the laws and take what they say with a grain of salt.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
would JB weld be strong enough to reattach? as long as it doesnt twist off with a wrench then its "permanent". and after touching up with paint it would look just like a normal weld
 

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JackHass said:
A true FUDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously? A fine example of blazing E-ignorance here.

Unless you've been under a rock or were unaware, there's a little bit of ambiguity in the NYS laws regarding muzzle brakes and what constitutes a legally attached one. This ambiguity has been exploited by DA Rice. Hence, a shop could take a pretty educated guess that until there is solid case law, or concrete legal guidance that they are on shaky ground and could potentially put themselves in legal jeopardy by simply attaching a piece of metal on the end of a metal tube. Wisely, they elct not to do this to save themselves the potential legal troubles. Hmmmm, make $75 for a weld job, or avoid thousands in legal bills and stay in business unmolested by Spota's new SCPD gun team that's been rumored to be in it's infancy.

It is a fact a local Suffolk shop received a call from Troop L GIU and was told to stop attaching muzzle brakes. They were informed that the barrels should only come from a manufacturer with a brake attached.

So it has nothing to do with being a Fudd and everything to do with an act of self preservation in a legally hostile, snti-gun climate.
 

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I would at a minimum follow the BATF guidelines used during the Federal AWB:
Permanent methods of attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over
 

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What about my pre-bans??
Do I need to worry about them too.....
 

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sherm66 said:
Seriously? A fine example of blazing E-ignorance here.

Unless you've been under a rock or were unaware, there's a little bit of ambiguity in the NYS laws regarding muzzle brakes and what constitutes a legally attached one. This ambiguity has been exploited by DA Rice. Hence, a shop could take a pretty educated guess that until there is solid case law, or concrete legal guidance that they are on shaky ground and could potentially put themselves in legal jeopardy by simply attaching a piece of metal on the end of a metal tube. Wisely, they elct not to do this to save themselves the potential legal troubles. Hmmmm, make $75 for a weld job, or avoid thousands in legal bills and stay in business unmolested by Spota's new SCPD gun team that's been rumored to be in it's infancy.

It is a fact a local Suffolk shop received a call from Troop L GIU and was told to stop attaching muzzle brakes. They were informed that the barrels should only come from a manufacturer with a brake attached.

So it has nothing to do with being a Fudd and everything to do with an act of self preservation in a legally hostile, snti-gun climate.
Amen!!!!!
 

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sherm66 said:
Seriously? A fine example of blazing E-ignorance here.

Unless you've been under a rock or were unaware, there's a little bit of ambiguity in the NYS laws regarding muzzle brakes and what constitutes a legally attached one. This ambiguity has been exploited by DA Rice. Hence, a shop could take a pretty educated guess that until there is solid case law, or concrete legal guidance that they are on shaky ground and could potentially put themselves in legal jeopardy by simply attaching a piece of metal on the end of a metal tube. Wisely, they elct not to do this to save themselves the potential legal troubles. Hmmmm, make $75 for a weld job, or avoid thousands in legal bills and stay in business unmolested by Spota's new SCPD gun team that's been rumored to be in it's infancy.

It is a fact a local Suffolk shop received a call from Troop L GIU and was told to stop attaching muzzle brakes. They were informed that the barrels should only come from a manufacturer with a brake attached.

So it has nothing to do with being a Fudd and everything to do with an act of self preservation in a legally hostile, snti-gun climate.
E-ignorance?? I think not!!! Permanently attached, means permanently attached. Pinned and welded over, or silver solder welded PERIOD!!!! Any decent gunsmith can, and should be able to do that. It's not rocket science. That's the law.....end of story!

As far as being a FUDD, he is one!
 

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JackHass said:
E-ignorance?? I think not!!! Permanently attached, means permanently attached. Pinned and welded over, or silver solder welded PERIOD!!!! Any decent gunsmith can, and should be able to do that. It's not rocket science. That's the law.....end of story!

As far as being a FUDD, he is one!
you don't get it... it's not the actual welding that's the problem, it's the legal ramifications...
 

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JackHass said:
E-ignorance?? I think not!!! Permanently attached, means permanently attached. Pinned and welded over, or silver solder welded PERIOD!!!! Any decent gunsmith can, and should be able to do that. It's not rocket science. That's the law.....end of story!

As far as being a FUDD, he is one!
Again, you're missing the point completely and the bigger picture is flying over your head. You seem to be under the unfortunate impression that the law is the concrete LAW and that because it says so in a book that you are protected. If what you say is the case, there'd be no need for higher courts, State and Federal District courts or the Supreme Court.

A lawyer that has a firm practices law. A judge or court hands down an opinion. Local, county, state and feds interpret the law. DA's, prosecutors, defense attorneys, LE agencies, Towns, Villages and corporations try new ways to stretch, limit, exploit and bend laws to suit their needs. There is no law that someone can't attempt to reinterpret. The aforementioned opinions, unique interpretations and legal theories often win.

Maybe they get overturned, maybe they don't. But what has happened in the interim. A shop owner who decided to weld a brake gets sucked up by Rice, run through the legal wringer, fiscally ruined and emotionally wrecked. Why would a prudent business man even consider risking it in a decidedly unfriendly legal climate? Is the asker an undercover DA Squad cop? A NYSP GIU guy?

Case in point with DA Rice. She is choosing to reinterpret the definition of an AWB and is prosecuting under her idea of what the law means. So where you find mistaken solace in the "law" actually affords you no such protection.

To boot, NYSP disagrees with your assessment of what permanent means. And has done so in court. In an upstate case a 5.5" properly pinned and welded brake was forcibly wrenched off a 11.5" barrel. This was verified by an expert witness to be properly pinned and welded per ATF regs. It was the prosecutions contention that as there were threads under there it met the definition of an illegal assault weapon. And they had an "expert" to back their interpretation of the law. The charge was dropped when the defendant pled to attempted manslaughter which the gun was used in.

Again step back. See the bigger picture. The law book you hold in your hand is no better than a collection of theories. Remeber, the book has the law. How the law is interpreted is defined by trends in case law which can vary by locale, political leanings of municipal entities and dozens of other factors.

If you feel safe under your assumptions, think again.

As for the guy being a Fudd just because he won't do some AR work? I've never been to his shop. If his comfort zone is pump guns, levers, bolt guns, black powder guns and drillings say, god bless him and vote with your dollars and feet. Find someone who will do the work. Do you actually think hard as to why almost no one in the region will do the work, and recommends sending it out to ADCO? Do the math.
 
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