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Why legal guns still cause arrests
'I am not quite sure what hysteria is about people carrying anything'

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Posted: April 24, 2010
10:35 pm Eastern

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WorldNetDaily

James Goldberg of Glastonbury, Conn., recently was arrested for carrying a firearm at his neighborhood Chili's restaurant, and his release because his actions were legal has sparked a major debate over the Second Amendment.

But the legislative director for the Massachusetts Gun Owners Action League, Jim Wallace, contends the case is evidence of the successful work of gun opponents in demonizing the hardware itself, using fear to crack down on a legal activity.

"I am not quite sure what the hysteria is about people carrying anything," Wallace said.

"If police officers carry openly, is the general public scared? They shouldn't be. Nor should they be scared if their fellow citizens are doing the same thing. The problem is the irrational stigma, probably created by the media, about guns themselves," Wallace said.

"What the gun opponents are fostering is a basic mistrust of their fellow citizens," Wallace said. "I've asked students at forums what they don't trust about the person next to them. They usually answer, 'I trust him, he's my friend.'

"Then I usually say, 'So what's the problem?' If you trust him, there shouldn't be a problem," Wallace said.

All you need to know about firearms, ammo and equipment in this ultimate searchable research guide.

Goldberg was released because under the provisions of the Connecticut firearms-permit law, he was carrying legally.

Connecticut is one of 13 states that allow open carry with restrictions. According to The Free Library, others are Utah, North Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, Tennessee, Mississippi, Georgia, Indiana, Maryland, New Jersey, Rhode Island and Massachusetts.

States that offer open carry without licenses or restrictions are Alaska, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, South Dakota, Vermont, Kentucky and Virginia.

While all states have their own variations of rules and regulations, Second Amendment advocates say the Goldberg case is a worrisome indicator.

Connecticut Citizens Defense League President Scott Wilson said that while the Chili's employees may have been well-intentioned, the greater issue was ignorance of the law.

"There is a perceived notion that if someone outside the law in Connecticut is carrying a firearm, concealed or otherwise, then someone is probably engaging in some type of illegal act," Wilson said.

"Never mind what the employees thought. The police themselves are unaware of the law. On many occasions, talking with retired or active-duty state police officers in Connecticut, they very simply don't know the law," Wilson said.

"And in some cases, even after I've pointed it out to them, they throw out, 'Well, we will charge you with breach of peace.' So it's not just the employees of Chili's. Police officers, Connecticut state troopers, and a lot of NRA instructors who teach the safety course here in Connecticut don't know the law," Wilson said.
Wallace said he looks at it as a picture of the whole nation.

"The problem is a nationwide perception of people with guns," he said.

Wilson cited the immediate reaction following the Goldberg case: lawmakers in the Connecticut Legislature proposed a plan to take away the open-carry provisions.

While it wasn't successful, Wilson said the reaction was alarming.

"The Connecticut Constitution, Article 1, Section 15, says clearly, 'Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state,'" Wilson said. "Plain and simple, Connecticut is an open-carry state provided the person has a Connecticut permit to carry pistols and revolvers."

Democratic State Rep. Stephen Dargan said bills were introduced to "plug the hole" in the law, but they didn't go anywhere, and he believes there is a better way to deal with it.

"The best solution is to inform the public about the citizen's right to carry firearms. That will be a lot better than trying to pass a lot of unnecessary laws. Let's inform the people about what the Second Amendment means and that Connecticut understands that people have a right to keep and bear arms," Dargan said.

Goldberg's incident at the Chili's is not isolated. Even though most states now allow carry permits, a number of citizens have been arrested and charged for gun-law violations.

The San Jose Mercury News reports police arrested Sherman Fontano for carrying an unloaded .357 revolver. Fontano said California law allows for the open carry of an unloaded firearm.

In March, the Starbucks coffee-shop chain created a furor by agreeing to allow people with legally issued handgun permits to carry their guns into the shops, following a case in Seattle in which people carried firearms into the store.

States' rules regarding carrying weapons vary widely, with 16 states having procedures to issue permits. Currently Illinois and Wisconsin are the only two U.S. states that do not issue permits for either concealed or open carry of firearms.
 

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moved to greener pastures
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Why legal guns still cause arrests
'I am not quite sure what hysteria is about people carrying anything'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: April 24, 2010
10:35 pm Eastern

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WorldNetDaily

James Goldberg of Glastonbury, Conn., recently was arrested for carrying a firearm at his neighborhood Chili's restaurant, and his release because his actions were legal has sparked a major debate over the Second Amendment.

But the legislative director for the Massachusetts Gun Owners Action League, Jim Wallace, contends the case is evidence of the successful work of gun opponents in demonizing the hardware itself, using fear to crack down on a legal activity.

"I am not quite sure what the hysteria is about people carrying anything," Wallace said.

"If police officers carry openly, is the general public scared? They shouldn't be. Nor should they be scared if their fellow citizens are doing the same thing. The problem is the irrational stigma, probably created by the media, about guns themselves," Wallace said.

"What the gun opponents are fostering is a basic mistrust of their fellow citizens," Wallace said. "I've asked students at forums what they don't trust about the person next to them. They usually answer, 'I trust him, he's my friend.'

"Then I usually say, 'So what's the problem?' If you trust him, there shouldn't be a problem," Wallace said.

All you need to know about firearms, ammo and equipment in this ultimate searchable research guide.

Goldberg was released because under the provisions of the Connecticut firearms-permit law, he was carrying legally.

Connecticut is one of 13 states that allow open carry with restrictions. According to The Free Library, others are Utah, North Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, Tennessee, Mississippi, Georgia, Indiana, Maryland, New Jersey, Rhode Island and Massachusetts.

States that offer open carry without licenses or restrictions are Alaska, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, South Dakota, Vermont, Kentucky and Virginia.

While all states have their own variations of rules and regulations, Second Amendment advocates say the Goldberg case is a worrisome indicator.

Connecticut Citizens Defense League President Scott Wilson said that while the Chili's employees may have been well-intentioned, the greater issue was ignorance of the law.

"There is a perceived notion that if someone outside the law in Connecticut is carrying a firearm, concealed or otherwise, then someone is probably engaging in some type of illegal act," Wilson said.

"Never mind what the employees thought. The police themselves are unaware of the law. On many occasions, talking with retired or active-duty state police officers in Connecticut, they very simply don't know the law," Wilson said.

"And in some cases, even after I've pointed it out to them, they throw out, 'Well, we will charge you with breach of peace.' So it's not just the employees of Chili's. Police officers, Connecticut state troopers, and a lot of NRA instructors who teach the safety course here in Connecticut don't know the law," Wilson said.
Wallace said he looks at it as a picture of the whole nation.

"The problem is a nationwide perception of people with guns," he said.

Wilson cited the immediate reaction following the Goldberg case: lawmakers in the Connecticut Legislature proposed a plan to take away the open-carry provisions.

While it wasn't successful, Wilson said the reaction was alarming.

"The Connecticut Constitution, Article 1, Section 15, says clearly, 'Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state,'" Wilson said. "Plain and simple, Connecticut is an open-carry state provided the person has a Connecticut permit to carry pistols and revolvers."

Democratic State Rep. Stephen Dargan said bills were introduced to "plug the hole" in the law, but they didn't go anywhere, and he believes there is a better way to deal with it.

"The best solution is to inform the public about the citizen's right to carry firearms. That will be a lot better than trying to pass a lot of unnecessary laws. Let's inform the people about what the Second Amendment means and that Connecticut understands that people have a right to keep and bear arms," Dargan said.

Goldberg's incident at the Chili's is not isolated. Even though most states now allow carry permits, a number of citizens have been arrested and charged for gun-law violations.

The San Jose Mercury News reports police arrested Sherman Fontano for carrying an unloaded .357 revolver. Fontano said California law allows for the open carry of an unloaded firearm.

In March, the Starbucks coffee-shop chain created a furor by agreeing to allow people with legally issued handgun permits to carry their guns into the shops, following a case in Seattle in which people carried firearms into the store.

States' rules regarding carrying weapons vary widely, with 16 states having procedures to issue permits. Currently Illinois and Wisconsin are the only two U.S. states that do not issue permits for either concealed or open carry of firearms.
 

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(shakes head) Should take action against the police agency, asking for an apology and better training of their officers
 

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(shakes head) Should take action against the police agency, asking for an apology and better training of their officers
 

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You have to wonder  if there is more to the story. I refuse to believe he was arrested for just sitting there having dinner with a sidearm in a holster.
 

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You have to wonder  if there is more to the story. I refuse to believe he was arrested for just sitting there having dinner with a sidearm in a holster.
 

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sfdfire37 said:
You have to wonder if there is more to the story. I refuse to believe he was arrested for just sitting there having dinner with a sidearm in a holster.
I would more think that the fact that the Police let him go would say he was doing nothing illegal.

Some whining college age dipshizzle who wrote a paper on Gun Control probably saw him and freaked everyone out saying that they were 42 times more likely to get shot than get the plate to his table.

In fact, looking into it, he was picking up a take out order and the Staff called Police. He is currently suing.

Goldberg argues that he was wrongly denied a pistol permit for nearly two years after the dismissal of his arrest.

He works at a Gun Shop called Guns For the Good Guys. The 911 dispatcher had no clue on the law, nor did the arresting Officers, who sighted him with "Breach of the Peace" (meaning someone got upset at seeing it).
 

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sfdfire37 said:
You have to wonder if there is more to the story. I refuse to believe he was arrested for just sitting there having dinner with a sidearm in a holster.
I would more think that the fact that the Police let him go would say he was doing nothing illegal.

Some whining college age dipshizzle who wrote a paper on Gun Control probably saw him and freaked everyone out saying that they were 42 times more likely to get shot than get the plate to his table.

In fact, looking into it, he was picking up a take out order and the Staff called Police. He is currently suing.

Goldberg argues that he was wrongly denied a pistol permit for nearly two years after the dismissal of his arrest.

He works at a Gun Shop called Guns For the Good Guys. The 911 dispatcher had no clue on the law, nor did the arresting Officers, who sighted him with "Breach of the Peace" (meaning someone got upset at seeing it).
 

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I carry concealed in CT when I carry in CT. I believe that irrespective of what the law allows, it's courteous to carry concealed because some people are genuinely afraid of guns and I feel we should recognize that while many of US consider a gun nothing more than a bit of survival gear or sporting gear,There are folks whose first reaction is "OMG, that guy has a gun, what if he goes crazy and shoots me!?"

It's sort of like owning a "bit scary looking "pit bull. He might be a great family pet but it's inconsiderate IMO to go walking him off-leash near the elementary school because you are almost guaranteed to scare somebody. That's kind of an issue I have with the Guns & Coffee crowd, I understand the statement they are trying to make but I think that the patrons and employees of Starbucks should not be made to fewel intimidated either, whether that threat is real or imaginary. I say we should recognize that fear and respect it. I think if someone is on the fence about gun control and fifteen guys come into the coffee shop carrying openly, they might decide they want to avoid that scenario by voting to ban guns. does this make sense to anybody here except me?

There is no NEED to open carry in a Chilis. Unless you want to make some sort of political statement, or else be seen as macho or some such BS- your draw is not all that much faster that you are safer- many tactical experts would argue that you are actually less safe since any BG's will see you as the first threat to neutralize.

Open carry makes a lot of sense when afield hunting or on a range. Let's not createw a situation where legislators seek to BAN oen carry because of some guy carrying open in a family restaurant, and let him screw it up for the hunters and those of us who go shooting or might accidentally slip our cover garments changing jackets, and make open carry disappear in the states that allow it.

Nancy Q Public might have no issue with guns and really never gave it a second thought until the four guys with Glocks came up and sat next to her 6YO's Birthday party at Chilis. Same for hunters, don't drive around with a deer on the hood of your car and you won't get a backlash from anti-hunters. Back when I was a kid we called this "vommon sense" , but it seems rarer and rarer these days. I don't think the guy should have been arrested for open carry but I also think the manager has every riht to ask him to leave and he does not, well, then he might be eligible for arrest AFAIK. It would be interesting to learn what REALLY transpired in this case before jumping to conclusions about blaming the LEOs I think.

edit>> Doc T snuck that post above in while I was typing, if he was just picking up a takeout order I see no issue. however, we know there are also guys who are looking to draw attention to themselves and their guns- I can see Chilis instituting a "no firearms" policy over this. If the guy had covered up, there would be no issue.
 

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I carry concealed in CT when I carry in CT. I believe that irrespective of what the law allows, it's courteous to carry concealed because some people are genuinely afraid of guns and I feel we should recognize that while many of US consider a gun nothing more than a bit of survival gear or sporting gear,There are folks whose first reaction is "OMG, that guy has a gun, what if he goes crazy and shoots me!?"

It's sort of like owning a "bit scary looking "pit bull. He might be a great family pet but it's inconsiderate IMO to go walking him off-leash near the elementary school because you are almost guaranteed to scare somebody. That's kind of an issue I have with the Guns & Coffee crowd, I understand the statement they are trying to make but I think that the patrons and employees of Starbucks should not be made to fewel intimidated either, whether that threat is real or imaginary. I say we should recognize that fear and respect it. I think if someone is on the fence about gun control and fifteen guys come into the coffee shop carrying openly, they might decide they want to avoid that scenario by voting to ban guns. does this make sense to anybody here except me?

There is no NEED to open carry in a Chilis. Unless you want to make some sort of political statement, or else be seen as macho or some such BS- your draw is not all that much faster that you are safer- many tactical experts would argue that you are actually less safe since any BG's will see you as the first threat to neutralize.

Open carry makes a lot of sense when afield hunting or on a range. Let's not createw a situation where legislators seek to BAN oen carry because of some guy carrying open in a family restaurant, and let him screw it up for the hunters and those of us who go shooting or might accidentally slip our cover garments changing jackets, and make open carry disappear in the states that allow it.

Nancy Q Public might have no issue with guns and really never gave it a second thought until the four guys with Glocks came up and sat next to her 6YO's Birthday party at Chilis. Same for hunters, don't drive around with a deer on the hood of your car and you won't get a backlash from anti-hunters. Back when I was a kid we called this "vommon sense" , but it seems rarer and rarer these days. I don't think the guy should have been arrested for open carry but I also think the manager has every riht to ask him to leave and he does not, well, then he might be eligible for arrest AFAIK. It would be interesting to learn what REALLY transpired in this case before jumping to conclusions about blaming the LEOs I think.

edit>> Doc T snuck that post above in while I was typing, if he was just picking up a takeout order I see no issue. however, we know there are also guys who are looking to draw attention to themselves and their guns- I can see Chilis instituting a "no firearms" policy over this. If the guy had covered up, there would be no issue.
 

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Captain Will said:
many tactical experts would argue that you are actually less safe since any BG's will see you as the first threat to neutralize.
This also has been my thoughts. Open carry is fine in some situations, but if you are really doing it for safety, don't show the thugs your hand until they call.
 

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Captain Will said:
many tactical experts would argue that you are actually less safe since any BG's will see you as the first threat to neutralize.
This also has been my thoughts. Open carry is fine in some situations, but if you are really doing it for safety, don't show the thugs your hand until they call.
 

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Probably an anti-gun cop disgruntled that John Q Taxpayer can carry in public.
 

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Probably an anti-gun cop disgruntled that John Q Taxpayer can carry in public.
 

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Wow, this was a good thread for me to read, as I do have a CT pistol carry permit as well.

I have wondered if I can open carry, since there are no "restrictions" listed on the permit. Well, I guess I can, but it would invite a lot of hassle from people who do not know the laws. Honestly, the only place I will ever open carry is at the range, or in the field when and if i'm hunting.
 

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Wow, this was a good thread for me to read, as I do have a CT pistol carry permit as well.

I have wondered if I can open carry, since there are no "restrictions" listed on the permit. Well, I guess I can, but it would invite a lot of hassle from people who do not know the laws. Honestly, the only place I will ever open carry is at the range, or in the field when and if i'm hunting.
 

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I don't believe in open carry. When I hunt, I use a rifle or shotgun. If I carry a handgun, I carry concealed. But sometimes concealed isn't concealed. I've seen many a person whose holster stuck down under his shirt. Many a person who was "printing" his pistol, even though it was concealed, you could see the outline under his shirt. Information like this never seems to make it into the news.
 

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Assault is a behavior; Not a weapon.
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I don't believe in open carry. When I hunt, I use a rifle or shotgun. If I carry a handgun, I carry concealed. But sometimes concealed isn't concealed. I've seen many a person whose holster stuck down under his shirt. Many a person who was "printing" his pistol, even though it was concealed, you could see the outline under his shirt. Information like this never seems to make it into the news.
 
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