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Sharp Shooter!
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Because Of New State Law, Cities And Counties Are Scrambling To Get Their Gun Laws Off The Books
St. Peteresburg Times ^ | September 1, 2011 | Curtis Krueger

Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2011 9:38:43 AM by Iron Munro

The state of Florida is going after a gang of gun outlaws by threatening them with $5,000 fines, firings and lawsuits.

So who's in the gang?

St. Petersburg, Brooksville, Tampa, Hillsborough County -and other scattered scofflaws.

As a result, city councils and county commissions are now scrambling to rewrite local laws, because they're staring down the barrel at those fines, firings and lawsuits.

St. Petersburg is getting ready to repeal its ordinance against discharging firearms in the city limits. Tarpon Springs made a similar decision in August. Brooksville killed a ban on guns in parks and also deleted a law that could have suspended the sale of ammunition and firearms during emergencies. There are many more.

All those ordinances have been illegal for years because state law prevents cities and counties from regulating guns. But a new law, set to take effect Oct. 1, takes it a step further. It allows judgments of up to $100,000 against local governments that enforce such laws. And, in an unusual move, the law also says local officials could be fired and fined $5,000, with no representation from the city or county attorney.

"It is from Pensacola to Key West and all points in between," said Kraig Conn, legislative counsel for the Florida League of Cities.

Conn said city officials at first reacted with "a level of disbelief" as they realized their governments could be penalized and "you're going to be held personally liable as well."

St. Petersburg police Chief Chuck Harmon said, "I think they went overboard. I understand if they want to regulate state gun laws as the Legislature has the authority to do. But what happens to an officer who may misapply an ordinance? That seems like an awful lot of penalties for something that may be unintentional."

State Rep. Matt Gaetz, R-Fort Walton Beach, who sponsored the law, said "There's been plenty of hand-wringing and bed-wetting from local government."

But he said something needed to be done to prevent them from "willfully" violating state law. He pointed to the city of South Miami, which passed an ordinance requiring trigger locks.

The National Rifle Association fought the law, which was overturned because of the state law preventing it. Even so, Gaetz said, "There was no way for the NRA to ever be made whole through the recovery of attorneys fees and everything else."

Now there is.

The story begins in 1987, when the Florida Legislature passed a law saying it controls "the whole field of regulation of firearms and ammunition."

Just in case that wasn't clear, the law spelled out that this power was "to the exclusion of all existing and future county, city, town, or municipal ordinances." It made exceptions for the Florida Constitution and "general law."

But apparently, it wasn't clear. Cities and counties continued regulating some aspects of guns and ammo, at the very least by keeping gun laws on the books.

Such as St. Petersburg, which has an ordinance preventing people from firing guns in the city limits. Or Brooksville, which banned guns in parks.

Occasionally, a city or county would bring some of its laws into line, as Pasco County did in 2003, by repealing most firearms regulations. The matter came to the county's attention because a local resident with a concealed gun permit liked riding his bike several times a week at the Jay B. Starkey Wilderness Park and thought he should bring his gun with him for his own protection.

"In wooded areas like that, you're all by yourself," the man said at the time. "You're three, four miles out on the bike path, and anything could happen."

But other local laws have remained.

Pasco, for example, still has an ordinance that allows the county administrator to suspend the sale of alcohol, explosives or guns during a state of emergency. County Attorney Jeff Steinsnyder said the county would no longer enforce that ordinance, or any other gun control ordinances, once the state law takes effect. He said the ordinance likely would be stricken during a cleanup of the county's land development code.

The law does not mean that it's suddenly acceptable to fire guns at will. There is a state law against discharging a firearm in public.

Asked if it wouldn't be helpful to let officials keep guns out of city parks, Gaetz, the legislator, said it's never the law-abiding people with proper concealed weapons permits who cause trouble. It's always the people who are holding guns illegally.

Even with the new law, he doesn't expect a lot of fines and firings. He expects that cities and counties will continue taking their old gun laws off the books.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

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Sharp Shooter!
Joined
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400 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Because Of New State Law, Cities And Counties Are Scrambling To Get Their Gun Laws Off The Books
St. Peteresburg Times ^ | September 1, 2011 | Curtis Krueger

Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2011 9:38:43 AM by Iron Munro

The state of Florida is going after a gang of gun outlaws by threatening them with $5,000 fines, firings and lawsuits.

So who's in the gang?

St. Petersburg, Brooksville, Tampa, Hillsborough County -and other scattered scofflaws.

As a result, city councils and county commissions are now scrambling to rewrite local laws, because they're staring down the barrel at those fines, firings and lawsuits.

St. Petersburg is getting ready to repeal its ordinance against discharging firearms in the city limits. Tarpon Springs made a similar decision in August. Brooksville killed a ban on guns in parks and also deleted a law that could have suspended the sale of ammunition and firearms during emergencies. There are many more.

All those ordinances have been illegal for years because state law prevents cities and counties from regulating guns. But a new law, set to take effect Oct. 1, takes it a step further. It allows judgments of up to $100,000 against local governments that enforce such laws. And, in an unusual move, the law also says local officials could be fired and fined $5,000, with no representation from the city or county attorney.

"It is from Pensacola to Key West and all points in between," said Kraig Conn, legislative counsel for the Florida League of Cities.

Conn said city officials at first reacted with "a level of disbelief" as they realized their governments could be penalized and "you're going to be held personally liable as well."

St. Petersburg police Chief Chuck Harmon said, "I think they went overboard. I understand if they want to regulate state gun laws as the Legislature has the authority to do. But what happens to an officer who may misapply an ordinance? That seems like an awful lot of penalties for something that may be unintentional."

State Rep. Matt Gaetz, R-Fort Walton Beach, who sponsored the law, said "There's been plenty of hand-wringing and bed-wetting from local government."

But he said something needed to be done to prevent them from "willfully" violating state law. He pointed to the city of South Miami, which passed an ordinance requiring trigger locks.

The National Rifle Association fought the law, which was overturned because of the state law preventing it. Even so, Gaetz said, "There was no way for the NRA to ever be made whole through the recovery of attorneys fees and everything else."

Now there is.

The story begins in 1987, when the Florida Legislature passed a law saying it controls "the whole field of regulation of firearms and ammunition."

Just in case that wasn't clear, the law spelled out that this power was "to the exclusion of all existing and future county, city, town, or municipal ordinances." It made exceptions for the Florida Constitution and "general law."

But apparently, it wasn't clear. Cities and counties continued regulating some aspects of guns and ammo, at the very least by keeping gun laws on the books.

Such as St. Petersburg, which has an ordinance preventing people from firing guns in the city limits. Or Brooksville, which banned guns in parks.

Occasionally, a city or county would bring some of its laws into line, as Pasco County did in 2003, by repealing most firearms regulations. The matter came to the county's attention because a local resident with a concealed gun permit liked riding his bike several times a week at the Jay B. Starkey Wilderness Park and thought he should bring his gun with him for his own protection.

"In wooded areas like that, you're all by yourself," the man said at the time. "You're three, four miles out on the bike path, and anything could happen."

But other local laws have remained.

Pasco, for example, still has an ordinance that allows the county administrator to suspend the sale of alcohol, explosives or guns during a state of emergency. County Attorney Jeff Steinsnyder said the county would no longer enforce that ordinance, or any other gun control ordinances, once the state law takes effect. He said the ordinance likely would be stricken during a cleanup of the county's land development code.

The law does not mean that it's suddenly acceptable to fire guns at will. There is a state law against discharging a firearm in public.

Asked if it wouldn't be helpful to let officials keep guns out of city parks, Gaetz, the legislator, said it's never the law-abiding people with proper concealed weapons permits who cause trouble. It's always the people who are holding guns illegally.

Even with the new law, he doesn't expect a lot of fines and firings. He expects that cities and counties will continue taking their old gun laws off the books.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

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Premium Member
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If this is true I think this is the first time I've seen an elected official held accountable for something.

Paul
 

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Premium Member
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5,375 Posts
If this is true I think this is the first time I've seen an elected official held accountable for something.

Paul
 

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1,333 Posts
Wow, something simple and functional came out of a state government.  I'm honestly surprised, but very happy.
 

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Wow, something simple and functional came out of a state government.  I'm honestly surprised, but very happy.
 

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Now an Ex NYer
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About time- For too long officials have made up laws or stalled things with impunity. We need this in NY and nationwide
 

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Now an Ex NYer
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24,861 Posts
About time- For too long officials have made up laws or stalled things with impunity. We need this in NY and nationwide
 

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NRATC53 said:
About time- For too long officials have made up laws or stalled things with impunity. We need this in NY and nationwide
As I'm sure you are aware, we already have almost this same language in the NYS law- and then somehow these local "restrictions" have also been upheld. Which I have not really been able to figure out.
 

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NRATC53 said:
About time- For too long officials have made up laws or stalled things with impunity. We need this in NY and nationwide
As I'm sure you are aware, we already have almost this same language in the NYS law- and then somehow these local "restrictions" have also been upheld. Which I have not really been able to figure out.
 

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At what point do we step back and say "Well hold on, the US Constitution (AKA "THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND") bans all forms of infringement on the peoples rights to own and carry firearms, then go clean house on pretty much all stupid state laws?
 

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At what point do we step back and say "Well hold on, the US Constitution (AKA "THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND") bans all forms of infringement on the peoples rights to own and carry firearms, then go clean house on pretty much all stupid state laws?
 

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Now an Ex NYer
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Captain Will said:
As I'm sure you are aware, we already have almost this same language in the NYS law- and then somehow these local "restrictions" have also been upheld. Which I have not really been able to figure out.
We have lots of laws, some of which say a little bit of this, but nothing that clearly tells them hands off and sets fines for non-compliance
 

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Now an Ex NYer
Joined
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24,861 Posts
Captain Will said:
As I'm sure you are aware, we already have almost this same language in the NYS law- and then somehow these local "restrictions" have also been upheld. Which I have not really been able to figure out.
We have lots of laws, some of which say a little bit of this, but nothing that clearly tells them hands off and sets fines for non-compliance
 

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just working to improve,one round at a time
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1,680 Posts
Captain Will said:
As I'm sure you are aware, we already have almost this same language in the NYS law- and then somehow these local "restrictions" have also been upheld. Which I have not really been able to figure out.
I think your right.....we should have the state tell Westchester, Nassau, and Suffolk to stop infringing on state law and our NY state carry licences with a "to and From range" stamp, let alone the added fee.

Anyone see a class action here?
Or after the Westchester case?
 

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just working to improve,one round at a time
Joined
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1,680 Posts
Captain Will said:
As I'm sure you are aware, we already have almost this same language in the NYS law- and then somehow these local "restrictions" have also been upheld. Which I have not really been able to figure out.
I think your right.....we should have the state tell Westchester, Nassau, and Suffolk to stop infringing on state law and our NY state carry licences with a "to and From range" stamp, let alone the added fee.

Anyone see a class action here?
Or after the Westchester case?
 
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