Long Island Shooters Forum banner
1 - 6 of 6 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,247 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After reading and listening to a lot of discussion on the subject it’s my opinion that the ONLY effective way to force NYS into compliance with Bruen and the Constitution is through the courts.

I’ve heard over and over again that the system is rigged and I agree with that to a certain extent but not fully. In my mind that blanket sentiment is a excuse to do nothing but comply.

We are not going to make the tremendous political change necessary to turn this situation around through the legislature. The ONLY WAY to get NYS to comply is to sue the state into compliance. That means financial support for the organizations actually bringing the lawsuits. I would much rather spend a few hundred dollars supporting these organizations versus using it to comply with this legislation. Other than a renewal fee I won’t spend another dollar adding another firearm to my license or for training to “upgrade” a license until the state is force to comply with the Constitution.

Beyond that, if anyone hears about an arrest or license revocation for non-compliance with this law every other firearms owner should seriously consider supporting that individual in the legal battle to restore their 2nd Amendment rights and a civil rights lawsuit to compensation for a civil rights violation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
328 Posts
After reading and listening to a lot of discussion on the subject it’s my opinion that the ONLY effective way to force NYS into compliance with Bruen and the Constitution is through the courts.

I’ve heard over and over again that the system is rigged and I agree with that to a certain extent but not fully. In my mind that blanket sentiment is a excuse to do nothing but comply.

We are not going to make the tremendous political change necessary to turn this situation around through the legislature. The ONLY WAY to get NYS to comply is to sue the state into compliance. That means financial support for the organizations actually bringing the lawsuits. I would much rather spend a few hundred dollars supporting these organizations versus using it to comply with this legislation. Other than a renewal fee I won’t spend another dollar adding another firearm to my license or for training to “upgrade” a license until the state is force to comply with the Constitution.

Beyond that, if anyone hears about an arrest or license revocation for non-compliance with this law every other firearms owner should seriously consider supporting that individual in the legal battle to restore their 2nd Amendment rights and a civil rights lawsuit to compensation for a civil rights violation.

100% right.

Correct me if I am wrong, I thought if you are arrested for a civil right violation , the state must pay your legal fees. I need clarity on this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,255 Posts
100% right.

Correct me if I am wrong, I thought if you are arrested for a civil right violation , the state must pay your legal fees. I need clarity on this.
If CCIA was Found Unconstitutional in the Federal Court in the Second District . If you are arrested, the officer is responsible for violating your civil rights.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,162 Posts
After reading and listening to a lot of discussion on the subject it’s my opinion that the ONLY effective way to force NYS into compliance with Bruen and the Constitution is through the courts.

I’ve heard over and over again that the system is rigged and I agree with that to a certain extent but not fully. In my mind that blanket sentiment is a excuse to do nothing but comply.

We are not going to make the tremendous political change necessary to turn this situation around through the legislature. The ONLY WAY to get NYS to comply is to sue the state into compliance. That means financial support for the organizations actually bringing the lawsuits. I would much rather spend a few hundred dollars supporting these organizations versus using it to comply with this legislation. Other than a renewal fee I won’t spend another dollar adding another firearm to my license or for training to “upgrade” a license until the state is force to comply with the Constitution.
It still often boggles my brain that there are some gun owners, scratch that, not just owners, but somewhat active people in the "gun community" like this forum that think/ask/fantasize about the real of the SAFE Act. No. Not even if Hell freezes over and my friend becomes governor will we see a repeal of any bad gun laws as a result of our own legislative initiative. Even if we occasionally take back the Senate and once in a generation the governorship, even then we can only stop new bad legislation, but never get rid of it.

I agree 100% that (in this state) the courts are the only way. Prior to Bruen, even that wasn't open to us because the 2nd Circuit firmly believed that "proper cause"/may issue was constitutional.,

On the training front, you bring up an interesting point. I have NEVER advocated for anyone intentionally complying with the administrative pistol license restrictions imposed by licensing officers. And I have always, like the courts do now, only recognized two types of NY permits: "have and possess on premises" (what NYC people have) and "have and carry concealed" (what everyone outside of NYC has). These are only two regular license categories spelled out in the Penal Law.

Because the restrictions like "Sportsman" "Business" "Employment" "Guard" etc were completely made up by about half the counties in the state, and held no criminal weight, it was "only" one's license that was at risk in the event of treating your carry license as a "Full Carry" (also something made up). However, under the new CCIA, opting for the "premise" license allows you to avoid the training requirement and three year renewal. It also brings up two interesting practical points:

1) Aside from the good principle of refusing to spend money and time to comply, is it "worth it" anymore to get a carry license? In all reality, there aren't too many places to actually carry any more given all the "sensitive" and "restricted" locations; and

2) If you do bother to get the carry license, using it in a sensitive or restricted location is a Class E felony--if you are caught. But if a person is planning not to be caught, then bother with the carry permit in the first place? After all, carrying on the premises license is "only" a misdemeanor (Class A).

These are vexing questions. The good news is that if you a carry license already (which will be practically everyone with a pistol license here now), and you are not due for renewal for a while, you have some time to decide with regard to what you will do about the sensitive and restricted locations. And if one has that answer, then it means you at least 50% of the answer to the question of opting for premises vs. concealed.
 
1 - 6 of 6 Posts
Top