That's a really good Q, I wonder about posing this to Nassau re: making a scratchbuilt frame. I would predict laughter or "NO you can't" (regardless of tyhe actual law) but I have not asked yet.
DIY handgun?
I know you can build your own long gun as long as its for your own use and you serial number it, you can leagalo own one, and you dont make anything illegal. Can you do the same for handguns?
If so, at what point do you register it? Do you go to the suffolk pistol division with a incomplete reciever and have it added to your liscense?
If so, at what point do you register it? Do you go to the suffolk pistol division with a incomplete reciever and have it added to your liscense?
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You can't take possession of the registerable part, without a handgun license and a purchase document. At that point, you must register it. Finding someone to sell you only that part is going to be difficult, not like with long guns.
Can you legally build you own? Sure, just try to find the parts, LEGALLY and without so much hassle that it's cheaper to buy commercially. Remember, that as a non-FFL, you may not possess a handgun, which has not been CoBISed. How can you, as a non-FFL get a gun CoBISed? You can't.
Gary
Can you legally build you own? Sure, just try to find the parts, LEGALLY and without so much hassle that it's cheaper to buy commercially. Remember, that as a non-FFL, you may not possess a handgun, which has not been CoBISed. How can you, as a non-FFL get a gun CoBISed? You can't.
Gary
So what do you do if you mail order a 1911 frame and have it sent to a FFL Gary? How do they CoBIS just the frame?
Some of us on here are equipped/capable of scratch-building a hangun. Personally, I don't think I would attempt a revolver or semi, and would buy a barrel for anything other than a derringer type gun, but can CoBIS be proven to be impossible to satify and therefore void in the case of a self-build? What about what appears to be the impending repeal of CoBIS?
Some of us on here are equipped/capable of scratch-building a hangun. Personally, I don't think I would attempt a revolver or semi, and would buy a barrel for anything other than a derringer type gun, but can CoBIS be proven to be impossible to satify and therefore void in the case of a self-build? What about what appears to be the impending repeal of CoBIS?
My father has a home built black powder pistol. They have a lot if kits for them. But like any black powder pistol you don't need a license to own it, just to shoot it. He did get it put on his license though. I'll ask him about the S/N.
When I raised this question, this is what I was thinking, an entirely from scratch reciever. I didn't think about COBIS requirements.Captain Will said:Some of us on here are equipped/capable of scratch-building a hangun. Personally, I don't think I would attempt a revolver or semi, and would buy a barrel for anything other than a derringer type gun, but can CoBIS be proven to be impossible to satify and therefore void in the case of a self-build? What about what appears to be the impending repeal of CoBIS?
Getting the "registerable part" (frame/serial numbered major component) is not difficult at all Gary, I've done it several times. All you need to do is crack open the Brownell's catalog and you'll see dozens of frames available...Many other sources as well.Gary_Hungerford said:You can't take possession of the registerable part, without a handgun license and a purchase document. At that point, you must register it. Finding someone to sell you only that part is going to be difficult, not like with long guns.
Can you legally build you own? Sure, just try to find the parts, LEGALLY and without so much hassle that it's cheaper to buy commercially. Remember, that as a non-FFL, you may not possess a handgun, which has not been CoBISed. How can you, as a non-FFL get a gun CoBISed? You can't.
Gary
As far as scratchbuilding a frame from a block of steel... I haven't been able to get a great answer on the registration issues. but I kinda set it aside for now anyway - I know I "can" if I needed to, make my own - but it just doesn't pay time & materials wise to do it.
guns built this way (purchased bare frame builds) don't get CoBIS'ed either.
those kits have serial numbered frames to start with - you simply have to provide that to the PD just like any other gun to put on your licensegunsngolf said:My father has a home built black powder pistol. They have a lot if kits for them. But like any black powder pistol you don't need a license to own it, just to shoot it. He did get it put on his license though. I'll ask him about the S/N.
This was a question I recently ask the Nassau pistol dept.
Their first answer was " we don't know." Then after talking it over they told me that the frame must be registered and listed on your license like any handgun. And then when completed, you have to get it cobis and then re-register it with the caliber now listed. And all this they still weren't sure of.
Their first answer was " we don't know." Then after talking it over they told me that the frame must be registered and listed on your license like any handgun. And then when completed, you have to get it cobis and then re-register it with the caliber now listed. And all this they still weren't sure of.
I don't always look at things in terms of what is cheapest or easiest, or available off the shelf. It might be a fun project to do, I am thinking along the lines of a single shot, falling block action target/hunt pistol in one of the rifle cartridges like .223, .270 etc. There are a lot of available Contender barrels, and I am not a big fan of the looks of the Contender or MOA. and I think the screw-breech guns look like a sewer pipe and the bolt action XP type is done to death. No offense to the guys that like those types, but there is a certain appeal to the creative process, and making exactly what you want rather than choosing form among other people's interpretations of what a gun was supposed to be like.Parashooter said:As far as scratchbuilding a frame from a block of steel... I haven't been able to get a great answer on the registration issues. but I kinda set it aside for now anyway - I know I "can" if I needed to, make my own - but it just doesn't pay time & materials wise to do it.
I think they are wrong, CoBis is a dealer / ffl requirement , the law states that only a dealer / ffl who receives a new pistol from a manufacturer ( which includes distributors and other ffl's) is required to cobis . A manufacturer who uses their own pistol is not required to cobis and if you are not a dealer or FFL you are not required to cobis.Postal Bob said:This was a question I recently ask the Nassau pistol dept.
Their first answer was " we don't know." Then after talking it over they told me that the frame must be registered and listed on your license like any handgun. And then when completed, you have to get it cobis and then re-register it with the caliber now listed. And all this they still weren't sure of.
So if you make a pistol out of an 80% or from a block of steel and you are not a dealer or a ffl who received from a manufacturer then there is no requirement to cobis . Plain and simple.
§ 396-ff. Pistol and revolver ballistic identification databank. (1)
For the purposes of this section, the following terms shall have the
following meanings:
(a) "Manufacturer" means any person, firm or corporation possessing a
valid federal license that permits such person, firm or corporation to
engage in the business of manufacturing pistols or revolvers or
ammunition therefor for the purpose of sale or distribution.
(b) "Shell casing" means that part of ammunition capable of being used
in a pistol or revolver that contains the primer and propellant powder
to discharge the bullet or projectile.
(2) On and after March first, two thousand one, any manufacturer that
ships, transports or delivers a pistol or revolver to any person in this
state shall, in accordance with rules and regulations promulgated by the
division of state police, include in the container with such pistol or
revolver a separate sealed container that encloses:
(a) a shell casing of a bullet or projectile discharged from such
pistol or revolver; and
(b) any additional information that identifies such pistol or revolver
and shell casing as required by such rules and regulations.
(3) A gunsmith or dealer in firearms licensed in this state shall,
within ten days of the receipt of any pistol or revolver from a
manufacturer that fails to comply with the provisions of this section,
either (a) return such pistol or revolver to such manufacturer, or (b)
notify the division of state police of such noncompliance and thereafter
obtain a substitute sealed container through participation in a program
operated by the state police as provided in subdivision four of this
section.
(4) The division of state police shall no later than October first,
two thousand, promulgate rules and regulations for the operation of a
program which provides a gunsmith or a dealer in firearms licensed in
this state with a sealed container enclosing the items specified in
subdivision two of this section. The program shall at a minimum:
(a) be operational by January first, two thousand one;
(b) operate in at least five regional locations within the state; and
(c) specify procedures by which such gunsmith or dealer is to deliver
a pistol or revolver to the regional program location closest to his or
her place of business for testing and prompt return of such pistol or
revolver.
(5) On and after March first, two thousand one, a gunsmith or dealer
in firearms licensed in this state shall, within ten days of delivering
to any person a pistol or revolver received by such gunsmith or dealer
in firearms on or after such date, forward to the division of state
police, along with the original transaction report required by
subdivision twelve of section 400.00 of the penal law, the sealed
container enclosing the shell casing from such pistol or revolver either
(a) received from the manufacturer, or (b) obtained through
participation in the program operated by the division of state police in
accordance with subdivision four of this section.
(6) Upon receipt of the sealed container, the division of state police
shall cause to be entered in an automated electronic databank pertinent
data and other ballistic information relevant to identification of the
shell casing and to the pistol or revolver from which it was discharged.
The automated electronic databank will be operated and maintained by the
division of state police, in accordance with its rules and regulations
adopted after consultation with the Federal Bureau of Investigation and
the United States Department of Treasury, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and
Firearms to ensure compatibility with national ballistic technology.
(7) Any person, firm or corporation who knowingly violates any of the
provisions of this section shall be guilty of a violation, punishable as
provided in the penal law. Any person, firm or corporation who knowingly
violates any of the provisions of this section after having been
previously convicted of a violation of this section shall be guilty of a
class A misdemeanor, punishable as provided in the penal law.
Get out your hacksaws, files and scrap metal.
http://michaeljedelman.com/PDFs2Post/JACOMiniPistol.PDF
http://michaeljedelman.com/PDFs2Post/JACOMiniPistol.PDF
WOW, cool looking little gun- and I did not even know you could get liners- I would have tried to make this part out of an existing chambered barrel from a 10/22 or something.gz said:Get out your hacksaws, files and scrap metal.
http://michaeljedelman.com/PDFs2Post/JACOMiniPistol.PDF
That is similar to what I wanted to do, except I was starting with 10" from a 91/30 barrel and was going to go with .32 acp or the .32 S&W long / .32 H&R mag.gz said:Get out your hacksaws, files and scrap metal.
http://michaeljedelman.com/PDFs2Post/JACOMiniPistol.PDF
This is a good starting point.
I'll have to stop by SCPD and ask them how to do this legaly
http://casualshooter.blogspot.com/2011/10/diy-firearms.html
Here's a finished example, it's not mine.
Here's a finished example, it's not mine.
I am pretty sure that for a from scratch build you would need a gunsmith license from your locale (like Suffolk for instance in New york), an FFL license, and File form ATF F 5320.1 (application to make and register a firearm) . In order to do this you would need a gunsmith/dealers license from your NY locale. Suffolk for instance will require you to show proof a FFL license, brick and mortar commercially zoned building w/ floor plan, verifaction of security system, verification of town compliance and so on (there is a lot more). I could post all the paperwork if anyone would like. Not worth the cost unless you are going to be a full fledged firearms dealer or gunsmith. Now if it were a kit that was purchased via a document with registered serial numbers then I don't see a problem. You would need your pistol license and purchase the kit, do the build, and add on to your license within the 21 days of purchase for inspection.
ATF F 5320.1 deals with NFA registered weapons under 26 USC Chapter 53 : Machine Guns, DSestructive Devices etc etc. it does not deal with the manufacture of a handgun by an individual.
In the New York State Penal Code, a gunsmith is defined as "any person, firm, partnership, corporation or company who engages in the business of repairing, altering, assembling, manufacturing, cleaning, polishing, engraving or trueing, or who performs any mechanical operation" on firearms.
Since this is an individual not engaged in the business of gunsmithing and is manufacturing this for their own personal use, they would not be considered a gunsmith.
A Federal Firearms License (FFL) is a license that enables an individual or a company to engage in a business pertaining to the manufacture of firearms and ammunition or the interstate and intrastate sale of firearms.
Again since this is not a business venture and only for personal use, this would not apply.
The correct agency to ask would be the NYSP Pistol division. They are the agency that maintains the centralized database of handguns legally owned in NYS.
After its made, you'd have to g engrave a serial number. As far as Cobis? I defer to others opinions here I havent bought a new handgun since 1999.
Leagl? I do believe it is as there doesnt appear to be any laws federal or local against it except permit/license. That being said, I'll throw this out.
Some Peace Officers in NYS are not required to do anything except a C Form for transfer of a handgun. Suppose a Peace Officer decided he wanted to tinker in his garage and build a Krinkov pistol. Bent the flat, assembled it, put a serial number on it and did the C form for the NYS police. Aside from the issue of where it was aquired from, there is no permitting issues with local licensing bureaus (maybe his job or NYSP) . There is no Cobis issue as he is not an FFL, dealer or gunbsmith as defined by the law.
Too confusing, just move to an unrestricted state.
In the New York State Penal Code, a gunsmith is defined as "any person, firm, partnership, corporation or company who engages in the business of repairing, altering, assembling, manufacturing, cleaning, polishing, engraving or trueing, or who performs any mechanical operation" on firearms.
Since this is an individual not engaged in the business of gunsmithing and is manufacturing this for their own personal use, they would not be considered a gunsmith.
A Federal Firearms License (FFL) is a license that enables an individual or a company to engage in a business pertaining to the manufacture of firearms and ammunition or the interstate and intrastate sale of firearms.
Again since this is not a business venture and only for personal use, this would not apply.
The correct agency to ask would be the NYSP Pistol division. They are the agency that maintains the centralized database of handguns legally owned in NYS.
After its made, you'd have to g engrave a serial number. As far as Cobis? I defer to others opinions here I havent bought a new handgun since 1999.
Leagl? I do believe it is as there doesnt appear to be any laws federal or local against it except permit/license. That being said, I'll throw this out.
Some Peace Officers in NYS are not required to do anything except a C Form for transfer of a handgun. Suppose a Peace Officer decided he wanted to tinker in his garage and build a Krinkov pistol. Bent the flat, assembled it, put a serial number on it and did the C form for the NYS police. Aside from the issue of where it was aquired from, there is no permitting issues with local licensing bureaus (maybe his job or NYSP) . There is no Cobis issue as he is not an FFL, dealer or gunbsmith as defined by the law.
Too confusing, just move to an unrestricted state.
ATF F 5320.1 applies to an individual, corporation, business, etc. for manufacturing a firearm. This would apply to a firearm built from scratch with a new serial number. Their is also ATF f 5320.2 for the manufacture and importation of a new firearm and a handgun built from scratch would probably fall under this under this form. Either way the firearm must be processed thru the ATF even as an individual and all local and state laws apply.
I stand corrected as far as the two forms I posted they are for NFA weapons and imports. I will look thru my FFL paperwork to find the correct form. I am not in the habit of building firearms out of a block of steel.
Neither am I, I just was curious as to the leaglities of the Krinov that I mentioned in an earlier post. Not a block aof steel, just a sheet but its still manufacturing either way.
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