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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone have a link, to download a current SCPD PLB questionaire app and directions?

I’m pushing several people to start the process, even though we are in unstable times.

With Suffolk websites down, I don’t want to get anyone started, and wait a year to find out that they used the wrong forms, and start over.
 

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I think you may have to call them. With the websites down, they might only be working with paper that you have to go get in Yaphank?

The Applicant Questionnaire used to be here: apps2.suffolkcountyny.gov/scpd/pistolregistration/ , but that is down with all the other Suffolk sites.
I have a .pdf of the Questionnaire instructions that were current in September, 2020, but no idea if they would be current today, so that is no use to you.
The questionnaire was form PDCS4406n Rev. in September 2020, and I just Google that form number and got some results, but not from any official Suffolk site. I also read some comments that there is an updated one, so again, I think you would want to contact SCPD PLB and check.

Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
I grabbed a few of the current questionnaire and direction packets, at SCPD PLB.
Getting my sons to apply.

Couple questions.

I noticed that the “Dwelling “ permit definition now reads “ Formerly Known As Sportsman” and it allows for a hand gun, at home, range and hunting.

Is there any advantage, in applying for that ? Meaning, does it skirt the required for Carry, 18 hr class?
Can you apply for that, go through the whole process, and be issued a permit, quicker? ( LMAO at actually writing the word “quicker” in a thread, about SCPD PLB) Leaving the door open, to go for CCW amendment , down the road , when all the smoke and dust settles?
 

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The dwell license doesn't require the 18 hour training.

As for quicker I don't know. You still have to go through the investigation process.

What they have attempted to do is backdoor the prior licenses that were issued as concealed carry with restrictions and claim they are dwelling licenses. They dwelling licenses allows the license builder to "have and possess in his dwelling by a householder". The penal law says nothing about expanding that license to allow for hunting, target shooting or carrying the firearm outside the home and I don't think counties have the authority to expand the usage of the license beyond what is in the penal code. Restrict yes, expand no.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
There is no class offered, that limits a handgun to your home, only.
I should do this over, lol.
I was told that the applications, for new applicants, for a new license, had changed. I assumed it changed, 9/1. I wanted to get some current apps, for friends and family. I picked some, of the new ones, up, on Monday, at SCPD PLB.
I’m going to screenshot, the whole packet, and post here.
 

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Boy oh boy....My father has occasionally said that, on certain issues, "things are seldom black and white, but our purpose should not be to make them more gray." SCPD has certainly done that. In doing so, they are doing a half-assed job of trying to follow the outline of Section 400 of the penal law, but adding their own flavor and making it up as they go.

Here's my rundown:

First, I agree with Paul that a dwelling license wouldn't need any training. Similarly, you wouldn't need the 18 hour course for any of these license except for the one called "Carry Concealed." The license, for those who have already obtained it on this forum, seems to be marked "Carry."

--The first license in state law, and one that you don't need training for if you want a gun in your house is issued to "have a possess in a dwelling by a householder." This is what almost all gun people in NYC have. You are legally allowed to have this gun while hunting and targeting shooting outside of your home, but there is no provision in state law about carry ing it concealed on your person. SCPD doesn't explicitly say concealed carry is allowed as the means of being "transported" between those locations, but doing so verbally and calling it the same license a Sportsman was DOES allow concealed carry.
This is what Paul (correctly) means when he says that the county has no authority allow what the penal law does not.

--the "Business" license on the other hand mirrors the language of the penal law which states this license is to "have and possess in your place of busines of merchant or storekeeper." State law does NOT allow for concealed carry outside the business. Interestingly enough, neither do these instructions. So if SCPD plans to expand what the penal law allows likey have seemingly have done for the dwelling permit, they do not seem to be doing that here. So, it is unclear (from this) if they are trying to backdoor the old "Business" license, which applied to businesses other than stores and merchants and did permit concealed carry anywhere guns were legal.

--The "Semi-Automatic Rifle" license makes it sound like a standalone license here. If that were obtainable, one could then purchase rifles without the need for registration/vouchers. In contrast, a person with a pistol license would have to rely on the dealer's discretion regarding whether or not to transfer and that SCPD regards a pistol license as a rifle license.

--the "Security" endorsement is just hokum. "Special armed guard registration card" shows certifcation by the state that the person can "perform security guard functions and to carry firearms in connection with such functions." However, that person must "be licensed to CARRY such firearm." NYS law says a license to carry requires the 18 hour training. SCPD says a dwelling permit and their handbook requirements constitute a license to carry. Not so. But again, it's more evidence that SCPD intends to allow it. As an aside, the other requirements in this paragraph, ie that the employer be a "licensed security company" (whatever that means), registered with SCPD (whatever that means), and must be "incorporated in the 5 western towns" are all nonsense and NOT true. An armed guard can work for anyone, even himself, and those people don't have to be registered with PD, necessarily licensed, or located somewhere specific.


FINALLY, what about people who currently have licenses that were issued to "have and carry concealed without regard to employment or place of posession?"

You still have those licenses. You don't suddenly have licenses that now only permit you to "have and possess in a dwelling as a householder," but you can take to a range or hunting area, and which now may or may not be "dwelling" licenses. Your license must first be surrenderedd, expired, or revoked for that to happen.

If dwelling licenses are now Sportsman licenses by another name for existing licensees, they are CARRY licenses and therefore cannot be restricted to exlcude any type of carry. However, if Dwelling licenses are completely new licenses and they are now issued INSTEAD of Sportsman licenses, they cannot be expanded to include any type of carry.
 

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I'm a private investigator and have a Business-Sportsman license (for about 10 years now) that expires on 2/1/2023. I can confirm the Suffolk PLB is a mass of confusion. The bottom-line is that the person I spoke to actually said they "we do not know what the law will be on 2/1/23," when I have to renew.

If I did not take the classes their current policy is to change my license to "dwelling." But, they were not definite on that (giving me the impression that it might be changed to a "Business"). So they just "recommend" I take the classes in case its required. Yea, spend around $600 to $800 and waste two full days just in case.
 

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This is the new questionaire
View attachment 141400
it’s right there, in their literature. It’s exactly our old Sportsman.
I wasn’t doubting that it was there just questioning that the county doesn’t have the authority to do it. As others have said it’s a mass of confusion. I think many of the folks at PLB know the new law is unconstitutional in many respects but do what they are told on a day to day basis.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I am not familiar with the actual written laws and penal codes and such. I’m glad I found this forum, in these confusing , arbitrary and Willy Nilly rules. I saw this type description, and just figured… ok there must have been a ‘premises only’ , but now in the face of all this evolution, they rebranded Sportsman, as Dwelling.
I am amazed that SCPD would so graciously allow the Dwelling to take their pistols to the range, when the existing law says they do not have to. I wonder if Nassau is in that same boat.
 

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Boy oh boy....My father has occasionally said that, on certain issues, "things are seldom black and white, but our purpose should not be to make them more gray." SCPD has certainly done that. In doing so, they are doing a half-assed job of trying to follow the outline of Section 400 of the penal law, but adding their own flavor and making it up as they go.

Here's my rundown:

First, I agree with Paul that a dwelling license wouldn't need any training. Similarly, you wouldn't need the 18 hour course for any of these license except for the one called "Carry Concealed." The license, for those who have already obtained it on this forum, seems to be marked "Carry."

--The first license in state law, and one that you don't need training for if you want a gun in your house is issued to "have a possess in a dwelling by a householder." This is what almost all gun people in NYC have. You are legally allowed to have this gun while hunting and targeting shooting outside of your home, but there is no provision in state law about carry ing it concealed on your person. SCPD doesn't explicitly say concealed carry is allowed as the means of being "transported" between those locations, but doing so verbally and calling it the same license a Sportsman was DOES allow concealed carry.
This is what Paul (correctly) means when he says that the county has no authority allow what the penal law does not.

--the "Business" license on the other hand mirrors the language of the penal law which states this license is to "have and possess in your place of busines of merchant or storekeeper." State law does NOT allow for concealed carry outside the business. Interestingly enough, neither do these instructions. So if SCPD plans to expand what the penal law allows likey have seemingly have done for the dwelling permit, they do not seem to be doing that here. So, it is unclear (from this) if they are trying to backdoor the old "Business" license, which applied to businesses other than stores and merchants and did permit concealed carry anywhere guns were legal.

--The "Semi-Automatic Rifle" license makes it sound like a standalone license here. If that were obtainable, one could then purchase rifles without the need for registration/vouchers. In contrast, a person with a pistol license would have to rely on the dealer's discretion regarding whether or not to transfer and that SCPD regards a pistol license as a rifle license.

--the "Security" endorsement is just hokum. "Special armed guard registration card" shows certifcation by the state that the person can "perform security guard functions and to carry firearms in connection with such functions." However, that person must "be licensed to CARRY such firearm." NYS law says a license to carry requires the 18 hour training. SCPD says a dwelling permit and their handbook requirements constitute a license to carry. Not so. But again, it's more evidence that SCPD intends to allow it. As an aside, the other requirements in this paragraph, ie that the employer be a "licensed security company" (whatever that means), registered with SCPD (whatever that means), and must be "incorporated in the 5 western towns" are all nonsense and NOT true. An armed guard can work for anyone, even himself, and those people don't have to be registered with PD, necessarily licensed, or located somewhere specific.


FINALLY, what about people who currently have licenses that were issued to "have and carry concealed without regard to employment or place of posession?"

You still have those licenses. You don't suddenly have licenses that now only permit you to "have and possess in a dwelling as a householder," but you can take to a range or hunting area, and which now may or may not be "dwelling" licenses. Your license must first be surrenderedd, expired, or revoked for that to happen.

If dwelling licenses are now Sportsman licenses by another name for existing licensees, they are CARRY licenses and therefore cannot be restricted to exlcude any type of carry. However, if Dwelling licenses are completely new licenses and they are now issued INSTEAD of Sportsman licenses, they cannot be expanded to include any type of carry.
Thanks. You saved me the trouble of doing an analysis and you are spot on. Legally, there is no such thing as a "dwelling" license. Per the Bruen decision, all handgun licenses are unrestricted. SCPD is, at the moment, in turmoil, as they have no idea what the law is, as it changes, from court decision to court decision, injunction to injunction and injunction stay, to injunction stay. Do what you're comfortable doing.
Gary
 

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Thanks. You saved me the trouble of doing an analysis and you are spot on. Legally, there is no such thing as a "dwelling" license. Per the Bruen decision, all handgun licenses are unrestricted. SCPD is, at the moment, in turmoil, as they have no idea what the law is, as it changes, from court decision to court decision, injunction to injunction and injunction stay, to injunction stay. Do what you're comfortable doing.
Gary
Gary, the cops working PLB are like a service advisor at a car dealership.
 

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To begin with, I have no intention of allowing my current Suffolk County issued "Sportsman" license to be turned into a "Premises" license. With that said, I am asking anyone out there that has, or is currently in the process of amending their "Sportsman" license into a "Carry" license, what they had to do. Yes, I understand that the SCOTUS decision technically did this; but I do not want a confrontation in the event that this were challenged by law enforcement. I just want to get it done.

To begin with, I have signed up for the 18 hour class for this coming January.

I understand that I need to submit a letter to the PLB. Is this just a simple one sentence letter stating that I want to amend my license from "Sportsman" to "Carry"?

Does the letter need to be notarized?

Are there any other forms that I need to fill out - either in advance or while I am their submitting the letter?

Can this be done through the mail, or should I do it in person?

Do I need to submit the usual $5.00 check for an amendment?

Should I submit the request now, or should I just wait until I complete the course?

Approximately how long does the whole process take?

Is there anything else that I need to know?

Thanks in advance for your help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
To begin with, I have no intention of allowing my current Suffolk County issued "Sportsman" license to be turned into a "Premises" license. With that said, I am asking anyone out there that has, or is currently in the process of amending their "Sportsman" license into a "Carry" license, what they had to do. Yes, I understand that the SCOTUS decision technically did this; but I do not want a confrontation in the event that this were challenged by law enforcement. I just want to get it done.

To begin with, I have signed up for the 18 hour class for this coming January.

I understand that I need to submit a letter to the PLB. Is this just a simple one sentence letter stating that I want to amend my license from "Sportsman" to "Carry"?

Does the letter need to be notarized?

Are there any other forms that I need to fill out - either in advance or while I am their submitting the letter?

Can this be done through the mail, or should I do it in person?

Do I need to submit the usual $5.00 check for an amendment?

Should I submit the request now, or should I just wait until I complete the course?

Approximately how long does the whole process take?

Is there anything else that I need to know?

Thanks in advance for your help.
You need to fill out the amendment app itself, and pay $5 check or money order. The amend app is available at PLB. I did this in july. There was no letter involved.
You need to complete the 18 hr course. I did this on 10/8 then delivered my cert to PLB on 10/12. PLB said they must have the cert, in hand, to get into the investigators que.
I was called 11/22 by investigator, and made appointment for 11/28. I did in fact, turn in my sportsman, and received a carry.
 
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