Current SCPD-PLB ( 2023 ) Pistol Permit Questionnaire and Instructions
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They're bringing on their own destruction.
Gary
Gary
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598 Posts
So, the old "Sportsman" license has been turned into a "Dwelling" license, with no option to carry to and from range. And the interesting thing is that a current "Sportsman" (proper cause) license is technically a carry license, so they are magically converting every "Sportsman" license into a "Dwelling" license? Can they even legally do that?
And as a practical matter, there are really only 2 types of licenses; dwelling and carry. The other distinctions (business, bank express, supreme court, employment) are actually all a form of proper cause. Why would someone even bother with those distinctions when you can simply apply for a carry. In all cases except dwelling you still have the take the 18 hour class and deal with a 3 year renewal.
And as a practical matter, there are really only 2 types of licenses; dwelling and carry. The other distinctions (business, bank express, supreme court, employment) are actually all a form of proper cause. Why would someone even bother with those distinctions when you can simply apply for a carry. In all cases except dwelling you still have the take the 18 hour class and deal with a 3 year renewal.
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A woman in my office was called after 14 months to SCPD. Said it was interview. They finger printed her, gave her new form with her pic and info on it. She now has to get the 4 character witnesses to sign it. Even though she already turned in the notarized character witness forms last year. On the form Sportsman was checked. It also had explanation what she can do. To and from range, hunting and one other reason I forget to CC. No mention of dwelling. She has not taken a course. They asked no questions. So I guess she goes back in the pile.
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In a word, "no." The tricky part is figuring out what exactly is "that" which they are doing.
If the dwelling license is what a sportsman used to be, or "formerly" was, then they are issuing a 5 year carry license by another name and with no training. In our favor, but not exactly lawful.
If they are trying to say the current Sportsman are now dwelling (something we don't have any indication of), they "might" be able to do that, but they would be making a hell of legal argument in court and it would be too difficult to enforce in practical terms.
What we really need to see is someone actually get issued a Dwelling permit and then be told exactly what they can do with...either ahead of time or in an interview.
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It clearly says under the "dwelling" classification that it can be carried to and from a firing range. It is no different than the current 'Sportsman" restrictions.
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It does not say you can "carry" to and from the range it says you can transport to and from the range...
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Wouldn't a "sportsman" designation entitle the holder to carry while hunting in NYS?
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Nothing has changed in regarding how the handgun can be transported to and from the range unless you can cite otherwise. In fact it was noted in the previous handbook you are to safeguard the handgun on your person. Please indicate and cite where anywhere states it is now NOT allowed to be carried on your person as it has been for decades in Suffolk County transporting to and from the range.
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Folks:
The working-level staff, at the licensing agencies, in the lib-controlled counties, don't know what's legal, from day to day, because they're given different operating instructions, almost daily. Misinformation or politically-correct info is most of what they get and are told to tell everyone. The 5 suits are going to be heard, starting on 3/20. Confusion is going to reign, in the lib-controled agencies, until those suits are settled. The Republican controlled counties are appearing to comport with the intent of the Bruen decision, while the libs are acting like it never happened.
Gary
The working-level staff, at the licensing agencies, in the lib-controlled counties, don't know what's legal, from day to day, because they're given different operating instructions, almost daily. Misinformation or politically-correct info is most of what they get and are told to tell everyone. The 5 suits are going to be heard, starting on 3/20. Confusion is going to reign, in the lib-controled agencies, until those suits are settled. The Republican controlled counties are appearing to comport with the intent of the Bruen decision, while the libs are acting like it never happened.
Gary
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2,400 Posts
Vague is what SCPD does...
I am on your side but transport and carry can be two different things and the application for a dwelling license says transport.
Hopefully they all get kicked in the ass and all this bullshit goes away but they make the rules for now.
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I just looked at the pre -Bruen application I had saved and under sportsman it also said handguns may only be transported to/from the range or hunting location, however the handbook itself clarified that you can carry concealed on your person under a sportsman. It also mentioned stops for gas/food but that’s all moot now with the “sensitive locations “ craps. I don’t know if Suffolk has printed out a post Bruen handbook but with all the lawsuits going on it’s tough to keep up with the updates. I’m due to renew this June and still debating whether to go for fully carry (wasting 18 hours in a useless course) or keeping my sportsman which may be downgraded to a “dwelling”.
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Good diligence on your part.. Based on reports here, there is no new "handbook," but I would ask when you go to renew in June if there is one. If there isn't, just ask the person you are dealing with, take note of their position in the pecking order, and we will add it to the pool of knowledge here.
As I said in my post above, and elsewhere here, if the dwelling license is what a sportsman used to be, or what it "formerly" was in the language of the application, then SCPD is issuing a 5 year carry license by another name and with no training. In our favor, but not exactly lawful.
To date, no one we know of has been issued a "Dwelling" license as everyone renewing their Sportsman is getting a Sportsman again. To the extent they ask, or even if they don't, everyone is able to do what they did before in terms of instructions given from Yaphank. This is equally true of the Sheriff's Office, although their licenses are no longer called Sportsman on renewal. It is given a "Premises" endorsement, but the type is "Carry." Again, same as before with the exception of the stops etc due to the restricted and sensitive locations. [Note: there is a lone exception of a member here whose instructions from the Sheriff very early on (he was one of the first to receive the new "Premises" licenses), implied it could not be used hunting without the carry endorsement. However, that would run contrary to the Conservation Law, those who as followed-up with hunting specific questions, and instructions given to others].
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As it stands today (2/20/23) can we possess a semi-automatic rifle on a carry license? If not, does this mean we have to go back to square one and apply for a new license? This is crazy it's going to put New York dealers out of business if we don't win on 3/20.
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Yes, semi-autos are added to your pistol license just like a pistol. People without pistol licenses need to apply for one to get a semi-auto license.
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321 Posts
Quoted from another thread.
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Thanks for posting that. It would appear there is no change in “sportsman” license. When i was going to a range I would leave the pistol in the car if i stopped for gas or at a friends house, was that a violation? Will it be a violation to have the pistol on my person now if I stop somewhere? My 1911 is not so concealable. Am I suppose to have it concealed or open carry going to the range, I wonder.
Between your home and the range it is concealed- no open carry. According to the CCIA you cannot stop in any private establishment unless they post a sign saying lawful carry is allowed (in addition to other restrictions which are too many to list here).
The CCIA allows you to leave your pistol in your car unloaded in a safe affixed to your vehicle. Jurisdictions like Nassau prohibit permit holders from leaving handguns in the vehicle.
The CCIA allows you to leave your pistol in your car unloaded in a safe affixed to your vehicle. Jurisdictions like Nassau prohibit permit holders from leaving handguns in the vehicle.
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The part about Nassau is correct form what people have been told here, but just to clarify:
--Unless you are referring to those establishments that are also "sensitive" locations (rather than restricted ones), there are no "other restrictions which are too many to list here" when it comes to private property.
--A sign isn't required to give permission. The gunowner just needs to know or "reasonably should know" whether they have not given permission that possession of guns is allowed on the property. This permission is given through signs OR "express consent."
--The CCIA does NOT require "a safe affixed to your vehicle." The gun need only be a "secure container which, when locked, is incapable of being opened without the key, keypad, combination or other unlocking mechanism
and is capable of preventing an unauthorized person from obtaining
access to and possession of the weapon contained therein and shall be
fire, impact, and tamper resistant." A safe is also okay. A glove compartment is not. Whatever is chosen it must be kept out of sight from outside the vehicle.
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