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Zombtac Operator
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The Petit Family home invasion case, is a horrific tragedy that happened July 23, 2007. In light of recent Long Island home invasions, and Nassau County's urge to comply with invaders and "go along with them", I often cite this case as a reason for armed resistance.

The trial of the second suspecting is currently underway (today). Here is some of the overview of the case:

"She had this look like on her face that she understood, like you know that, yeah we were here, and we were invading her home and that she understood that we wouldn't hurt them and we'd just be on our way," Komisarjevsky said in his statement to police.. Suspect says, of raping the 11 year old daughter.

Two thugs with a history of home robberies (Hayes and Komisarjevsky), broke into the suburban CT. home of Dr. Petit's family and met no resistance.
They later claimed that they only wanted to rob the house, but once they were in there "things got out of control".

The mother was raped, then strangled -- prosecutors say by Hayes. The younger daughter - 11 - was raped -- prosecutors say by Komisarjevsky. The suspect took pornographic photographs of the girl after the act. Both girls were literally ignited alive in their beds, to which they were tied, and died of smoke inhalation.

It would have taken both girls at least a minute to perish in the torrent of poisonous smoke -- time, the doctor said, likely spent suffering terrible panic and anxiety.

Dr. Petit had been clubbed nearly to death with a baseball bat after the masked pair allegedly broke in to his four-bedroom colonial on a pre-dawn Monday morning. Tied to a basement support pole, he escaped to summon help -- rolling across two yards, ankles still bound and bleeding profusely from serious head wounds.

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If any home invader gets in, and has control of your home, things can always get out of hand (especially considering they are probably irrational drug-addled fiends). Passive compliance is not an option. I recently had a friend argue that if you don't resist the robber will just be on his way. I always think of this case.
Be prepared to defend you and yours and god bless!
 

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The mother left the house, and went to the bank, and got money and returned to the house. I would call that a tactical error. People need to train for decision making.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
wreckhog said:
The mother left the house, and went to the bank, and got money and returned to the house. I would call that a tactical error.
True. Once attacked she did so under duress, and that is an extension of compliance, and not resistance.

I think the case itself is an example of how resistance would trump passive compliance.

As I pointed out may, believe that if you just let home invaders have their way, that everything will be ok, and they'll just be on their way.
That is the message this case negates. According to the suspects themselves they just wanted to rob the family, but once they had free reign, things "got out of hand". You never want to let that happen. We see the results of "going along" in this case.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ok, fine.

I was using this case as an illustration for a home invasion scenario. (I know the details of the case are not ideal for this point, as the husband was sleeping on the couch when they entered his house, etc. but the point still stands.).

Two guys enter your home with a bat. What do you do? Comply with their wishes (as Nassau County literature etc, on the subject advises) and let them "have their way" or offer armed resistance.

In this case the end result was a woman and two young girls raped, burned alive, and the husband left for dead. I don't think resisting would have yielded a worst result, possibly the outcome would have been much better. Now, one can argue that 100 home invasions would not end this way, but I for one don't think it's worth taking that risk. The cost is too high.
 

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The problem is I will always have that hesitation due to worrying about the charges and lawsuits, both criminal and civil, if I decided to defend my home against invaders, it's a shame that we need to worry about things like this, Castle Doctrine should be in every state.
 

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Nordon said:
The problem is I will always have that hesitation due to worrying about the charges and lawsuits, both criminal and civil, if I decided to defend my home against invaders, it's a shame that we need to worry about things like this, Castle Doctrine should be in every state.
That is exactly the problem, you defend yourself and injure the intruder then they go and sue you. The sad part is that they have a chance at winning in a civil lawsuit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Nordon said:
The problem is I will always have that hesitation due to worrying about the charges and lawsuits, both criminal and civil, if I decided to defend my home against invaders, it's a shame that we need to worry about things like this, Castle Doctrine should be in every state.
No doubt. A valid concern in NY. I was just today reading Massad Ayoob's "In the Gravest Extreme: The Role of the Firearm in Personal Protection".

Highly recommend it. Though it was written in the 80s the principles still apply. Ayoob details not only practical defense but how the law applies to the defender and the liabilities. As the title suggest, do what the situation calls for, and in the gravest extreme, then you use deadly force. The alternative is not an option.
 

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Rule # 2 . If you coperate and go from crime scene ( scenerio ) 1 to crime scene 2 you have to assume you will be murdered.

Think Richard Speck

Unfortunatly , most people cannot or will not protect themselves.

They believe the police will protect them. ( the guys who come after the fact with the chaulk )
 

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Lousy Shot
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A home invasion is almost impossible to defend against. Short of having a firearm on your hip or one accessible from any location in the house, the pukes always have the advantage. You're sleeping. In the shower. Taking a leak or a dump. Watching the Simpsons. Or doing any number of casual, mindless activities you might be doing around the house all the time, every day.

BOOM!! the front door flies open and three pukes fan out and neutralize every occupant in about 15 seconds.

If you claim you routinely have the kind of situational awareness to deal with something like that effectively, you're either FoS, or you're a paranoid delusional. We feel safe in our homes. We let our guard down. We're not ready for anything. It takes several seconds for the best trained and aware to change their mindset from relaxation to defensive mode.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
BLAMMO said:
A home invasion is almost impossible to defend against. Short of having a firearm on your hip or one accessible from any location in the house, the pukes always have the advantage. You're sleeping. In the shower. Taking a leak or a dump. Watching the Simpsons. Or doing any number of casual, mindless activities you might be doing around the house all the time, every day.

BOOM!! the front door flies open and three pukes fan out and neutralize every occupant in about 15 seconds.

If you claim you routinely have the kind of situational awareness to deal with something like that effectively, you're either FoS, or you're a paranoid delusional. We feel safe in our homes. We let our guard down. We're not ready for anything. It takes several seconds for the best trained and aware to change their mindset from relaxation to defensive mode.
I agree it can be a very difficult situation to defend against. Which is where precautions come into. Security doors, welded door frames and deadbolts that go into them, alarm systems, etc. Firearms ready to go within reach, etc.

However in the case where you are capably confronted by invaders that's where the process comes into. I personally know a lot of New Yorkers who argue with me that they would just let the criminals in " and let them do what they want". It is this notion that I take exception to as I feel it is a naive and unrealistic view of reality.

Remember Nassau County and other officials recommend you let the invaders have their way, and if you comply you'll be fine. I beg to differ with this philosophy.
 

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[quote name='cjj']

That is exactly the problem, you defend yourself and injure the intruder then they go and sue you. The sad part is that they have a chance at winning in a civil lawsuit.[/quote]

Only if the bodies are found. ;) ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
T.Webb said:
cjj said:
That is exactly the problem, you defend yourself and injure the intruder then they go and sue you. The sad part is that they have a chance at winning in a civil lawsuit.[/quote]

Only if the bodies are found. ;) ;)
Read Ayoobs "In the Gravest Extreme". He talks about how to use personal defense without getting sued.

And really, I'd rather get sued than have my wife and kids raped and set on fire alive. I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
 

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Destro said:
Read Ayoobs "In the Gravest Extreme". He talks about how to use personal defense without getting sued.

And really, I'd rather get sued than have my wife and kids raped and set on fire alive. I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
Absolutely, I would defend my wife and daughter with the last breath in my body and would live with whatever consequences kept them from being harmed.
 

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Lousy Shot
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Just to follow my preceding post with a "however", I agree that cooperating with the scumbags is basically placing your faith in the good nature of a group of sociopaths. Not a good bet. But the opportunity to resist can only be evaluated in situ. I'm not as young or as tough or with the prunes I used to have. I would need to be better armed than all of them put together.
 

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Rather be judged by 12 than carried by six.

BOTTOM LINE. It isnt wise to broadcast your personal life for everyone to see.

Example: Expensive suv with diecast family members on rear windshield , Obumble bumpersticker, oblong white abbreviated town sticker, lotsa jewery , etc...

Yes, many crimes are random.
Locks are good, so is light, a dog is wonderful, a plan would be helpful.
If you do not have the composure and balls to act swiftly and with extreme predudice you are dead meat.
Will it ever happen to you? Probably not. Being prepared is not being paranoid.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
wreckhog said:
A gated community with rent a cops checking everyone that does not belong beats all of that. Plus your driveway gets plowed.
No doubt. I'm glad your deep pockets have everyone coverd! :p
 

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I think the moral of the story is precaution and pre planning. There are a number of home invasions in which no one is seriously hurt, then there are those that end this way. The problem is when the situation arises you don't know how it will play out. I forget where I read it but there was article a while back that said that in potentially life threatening situations most people become the strangest optimists, even to the point of being delusional, as if "it can't happen to me". Home invasions are hard to defend against, especially with the newer MO's of bursting in in broad daylight.

Our society has become somewhat distant; unless you've lived in a particular community for a LONG time, we've become accustomed to ignoring others. Think of the last time you heard a car alarm, did you believe it was being stolen? Did you care?

Our strongest defense, as was stated in a post above, is preparation. Invest in stronger door locks, an upgraded door frame or even upgrading to a new tougher door. A firearm is course a valid defense, but it's easy to be complacent in the home and especially if you live with kids, the steps you take to keep them safe might put your firearm out of reach.
 
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