Long Island Shooters Forum banner
1 - 20 of 32 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
O.K., I've been through several training courses (NRA, Military) and have never heard this addressed.... for all of you that carry a loaded semi-automatic do you carry with one in the chamber and if you do do you have your safety (if applicable) on or off? Or do you prefer to carry with the chamber empty and again, safety on or off? I've been practicing (S&W Shield Plus) moving the safety on off with my thumb and it feels fairly easy to do in a time of crisis but still I wonder if I'd have the foresight to do it in that time of crisis. Thanks...
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
37 Posts
The main reason I carry one in the chamber is if I am injured,hand ,arm whatever prior to making that first shot I would not have to struggle to rack the slide to put my gun in battery,ready to shoot.The use of a thumb safety could complicate an injury sitiuation even greater. Just my opinion having 30 plus years of inservice training. I have a pistol Ruger LC9S with a Thumb safety and a Glock which has none. I carry the Glock as my preferred gun.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,628 Posts
Great question. Always one in the chamber. The sole exception being an old single action revolver without the newer safety bar where you carry 5 rounds instead of 6 so the hammer rests on the empty chamber. Even these guns were "designed" to be carried with all six, but it probably wasn't the best idea. Regardless, since this is a gun that must be cocked before firing anyway, it's not adding an extra step having an empty chamber because the cylinder will rotate to a loaded chamber anyway. Just some context.

Since you asked about semi-autos: It probably has not been addressed in your firearms courses because either they were not concealed carry/defense courses, or there was simply a presumption that you would be carrying with one in the chamber. The design and legal definition of a handgun is a firearm that, once loaded, can be fired with one hand. Nowadays, with there are even guns/rear sights designed with a high shelf so you can rack the slide on something if you are injured...after a reload or putting in a fresh magazine.

As for the safety: when you do training for defensive uses, there usually is a step in the process for taking the safety off. In the NRA courses (protection outside the home, defensive pistol, etc), this happens after you have the gun out of its holster and its pointed downrange, but before you pull the trigger. These step is for people who have safeties, but there isn't a step for racking the slide for those who carry on an empty chamber.

I personally only carry guns without them: Glocks, Rugers, Kel Tecs. Of those I have worked into the carry rotation to test them out, like the S&W Shield, I always ordered them without the thumb safety. For me, I like the guns to be like my Mac...just point and click.

During those infrequent instances where I would carry something that did have a safety, such as my Bersa Thunder (before it broke), the Walther PPK/S, or Beretta M9 I did carry them with the safety off because it seemed like an extra step. But then I had the realization that it could get switched on for some reason, malfuction, scuffle, whatever. So my thinking became, and I have no idea if pros follow this logic, "if it has a safety, use it. Just train around it." The 1911 brings up both your concerns where you have to use the safety if you're carrying one in the chamber ie "cocked and locked."

My experience from talking to others, either as instructor or otherwise, indicates that the reason most people carry an empty chambered gun is because they are just not ready. That's okay, just get ready. If you plan to train so much so that you can quickly and competently rack the slide, you're ready to carry one in the chamber anyway.

I carried an empty gun around for days in my house and out and about when I first got my license just to get used to the feel. But when I loaded it, I loaded it.

Lastly, don't take any of this too seriously. As long as you are comfortable carrying and shooting the gun safely (meaning you won't shoot anyone you don't intend to, including yourself), just keep practicing and do so.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,375 Posts
After taking ecqc training from shivworks, which had actual force on force sessions. My pistols now have no safeties and always a round in the chamber

matter of fact, the training showed that revolvers are still strong contenders in a defensive situation, since the gun doesn’t go out of battery during contact distances
 

· Registered
Joined
·
595 Posts
I have a question that is loosely related to this post.

Last night I was at my 16 hour CCW course. The instructor stated that 7 +1 round limit is still in effect. I thought that was was knocked down by an upstate court. Can someone please provide some feedback on this? Thanks.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
320 Posts
Related info:
In brief - On a bear hunt I was instructed to stay on stand after dark and wait for the guide to pick me up. There were several bears near me after dark that could barely be seen. I saw the guide walking uphill in my direction because he had one of those million candlepower lights. I saw the light stop and no movement for several minutes before he proceeded up the hill again. I asked what happened and he said that a large bear was coming down the trail and they both stopped. The guide had a 1911 in his holster but the chamber was empty. He was afraid to put the light down because it was keeping the bear in place. Without a free hand, he could not rack the slide to get a round in the chamber. A rather dangerous stand-off indeed.

Moral of the story - a handgun with an empty chamber is as useless as tits on a bull. It was just lucky that the bear eventually moved off the trail and presented no further danger.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
280 Posts
i always carry with one in the pipe god forbid you only have 1 hand to use and in a high pressure situation that might be life and death u do not want to worry about racking your pistol. i carry a sig 365 macro. also if you feel uncomfortable doing that practice keeping your hand off the trigger and train yourself to where its second nature
 

· Registered
Joined
·
280 Posts
I have a question that is loosely related to this post.

Last night I was at my 16 hour CCW course. The instructor stated that 7 +1 round limit is still in effect. I thought that was was knocked down by an upstate court. Can someone please provide some feedback on this? Thanks.
10 round mags are legal i see no problem with using 10 rounds
 

· Registered
Joined
·
293 Posts
I have a question that is loosely related to this post.

Last night I was at my 16 hour CCW course. The instructor stated that 7 +1 round limit is still in effect. I thought that was was knocked down by an upstate court. Can someone please provide some feedback on this? Thanks.
Court case is NYSRPA v. Cuomo. Federal District Court ruled that the 7 round limit was unconstitutional and was affirmed by the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals. See below for relevant text from the 2nd Circuit:

New York’s seven‐round load limit does not survive intermediate scrutiny in the absence of requisite record evidence and a substantial relationship between the statutory provision and important state safety interests. We therefore AFFIRM the judgment of the Western District of New York insofar as it held this provision unconstitutional.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
467 Posts
Court case is NYSRPA v. Cuomo. Federal District Court ruled that the 7 round limit was unconstitutional and was affirmed by the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals. See below for relevant text from the 2nd Circuit:

New York’s seven‐round load limit does not survive intermediate scrutiny in the absence of requisite record evidence and a substantial relationship between the statutory provision and important state safety interests. We therefore AFFIRM the judgment of the Western District of New York insofar as it held this provision unconstitutional.
A Judge or Court ruling does not change the law. it has to be amended on the books. The seven rd limit is still on the books in nys. The NYS troops were told not to enforce it but local law enforcement can. The class instructor and the ncpd are correct. Unless you are at a range or home 7 rds is the still the law.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
280 Posts
A Judge or Court ruling does not change the law. it has to be amended on the books. The seven rd limit is still on the books in nys. The NYS troops were told not to enforce it but local law enforcement can. The class instructor and the ncpd are correct. Unless you are at a range or home 7 rds is the still the law.
ok good to know so 7+1
 

· Registered
Joined
·
595 Posts
A Judge or Court ruling does not change the law. it has to be amended on the books. The seven rd limit is still on the books in nys. The NYS troops were told not to enforce it but local law enforcement can. The class instructor and the ncpd are correct. Unless you are at a range or home 7 rds is the still the law.
So, applying that logic, if / when the CCIA (or parts of it) is ruled unconstitutional, if it "remains on the books" (and it will) then is can still be enforced no matter what the court says?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
280 Posts
So, applying that logic, if / when the CCIA (or parts of it) is ruled unconstitutional, if it "remains on the books" (and it will) then is can still be enforced no matter what the court says?
good question but no once the 2nd circuit rules that parts are unconstitutional they will be still on the books but un enforceable. Same thing for this 7 round thing no cop is going to goo omg u have 2 extra rounds when the second circuit said it was ok and even the state police aren't enforcing it. As long as its a 10 round mag and not anything more your fine
 

· Registered
Joined
·
293 Posts
A Judge or Court ruling does not change the law. it has to be amended on the books. The seven rd limit is still on the books in nys. The NYS troops were told not to enforce it but local law enforcement can. The class instructor and the ncpd are correct. Unless you are at a range or home 7 rds is the still the law.
It may still be on the books, but it's on the books as an unconstitutional law and therefore is unenforceable.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Just my opinion here. Only a fool would carry without one in the pipe or with one in the pipe and the safety on. In a time of need, you are not thinking about anything else but pulling the trigger if necessary. Does anyone think a thug is about to threaten you without one in the chamber or the safety is on? Is said thug going to ask you to wait a sec while he racks?

And why do people start a conversation with "OK"? Isn't that how one would answer a question? Why start the question out with an answer? Just asking.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,628 Posts
Just my opinion here. Only a fool would carry without one in the pipe or with one in the pipe and the safety on. In a time of need, you are not thinking about anything else but pulling the trigger if necessary. Does anyone think a thug is about to threaten you without one in the chamber or the safety is on? Is said thug going to ask you to wait a sec while he racks?

And why do people start a conversation with "OK"? Isn't that how one would answer a question? Why start the question out with an answer? Just asking.
To the first part, this is what training and practice are for: so you can do certain things without thinking. In a stressful situation it can go down the tubes, so people default to their highest level of mastery. Accessing the weapon, pulling it out of the holster, pointing at the target, sweeping off the safety, aligning the sights, and squeezing the trigger are all muscle memory. Deciding whether to do the first and last night thing (pulling it and shooting it) are the only things that require thinking and judgement. Everything in between does not.

To the second part, and only commenting on the use of "OK" here, since there is context: I think your confusion is based on your limited understanding of the word as a response, and only in the further limited use of it as a response to a restricted range of inquires. For example, "Would you like an English lesson?" Answer: "Okay/OK/O.K." It is a manner of expressing agreement, concession or consent, among many other uses.

So, when the OP used the word "OK," he was saying "Given that...." "Considering that..." "Granted...." "In light of......" [All of these are examples of conceding a point]....I have taken several firearms courses, but in all those courses I have taken, I have never seen the issue of carrying one in the chamber addressed...."
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top