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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've seen signs at stores before saying they charge you if you fail the NICS check. A couple weeks ago I was in PA at a gun show and a dealer had a sign up saying if you fail the NICS check they hold your drivers license until a $50 fee is paid. Is it legal/moral for them to charge you for failing a NICS check? Is it legal for them to hold your drivers license until you pay?
 

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Have they already completed the paperwork by the time the check is done, or does that come afterward?

I would say if they have already done the work they are charging the FFL fee for (like a car inspection) then yeah, they charge.

PS $50 for an FFL is a crime in itself, support some of the site vendors for much better pricing
 

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Marlin336 said:
I've seen signs at stores before saying they charge you if you fail the NICS check. A couple weeks ago I was in PA at a gun show and a dealer had a sign up saying if you fail the NICS check they hold your drivers license until a $50 fee is paid. Is it legal/moral for them to charge you for failing a NICS check? Is it legal for them to hold your drivers license until you pay?
Well, if you 'failed' (received a DENIAL) You're a criminal and have other things to worry about...

If for some other reason the sale didn't go through, and they told me they wanted $50 and were holding my driver's license, I'd just walk away. Go to DMV and tell them I lost it. $5 for a new one.

I wonder if they do that to prevent "Hey I wonder if I'll get away with it" attempts by people who KNOW they're prohibited.
 

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In PA you have to pay a seperate fee on top of the gun.I bought a Benelli and had paid an additional PA gun fee.I would rather buy from a local shop or go thru Gun Broker and use a local shop for the FFL transfer.  
 

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hunter won said:
In PA you have to pay a seperate fee on top of the gun.I bought a Benelli and had paid an additional PA gun fee.I would rather buy from a local shop or go thru Gun Broker and use a local shop for the FFL transfer.
I think that shop was jerking your chain.... I purchased a rifle in PA last year, no "PA gun fee", AND had problems with the PAICS check (the operator was in a bad mood, denied me, went there and raised hell, got it reversed) and no mention of a 'failed NICS' fee either.
That was at the Harrisburg show.
 

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BirdistheWord said:
Have they already completed the paperwork by the time the check is done, or does that come afterward?

I would say if they have already done the work they are charging the FFL fee for (like a car inspection) then yeah, they charge.

PS $50 for an FFL is a crime in itself, support some of the site vendors for much better pricing
What do they actually do other than take delivery and a NICS check for this ?
 

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broken wallet said:
You know if your not gonna pass either you lied on the paperwork or you know you have been convicted of a crime So whats the problem they did their job and you lied now pay the piper.
Uh....no
 

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It's kind of gray territory.

We don't do as many transfers as full blown stores do, but we've only had one full blown "denied" transfer.

If you think you are wrongly denied, you can appeal it. The process may take some time, but it's in your interest to clear your name. That's what our customer did.

During the "Mosin 100" we heard an interesting story.......someone was having a NICS check done and was denied. First time ever, clean record, and had purchased plenty of firearms through stores over the years. He appealed it and found out that the person on the other end of the NICS check was mad at the dealer doing the check for some reason and was just denying transfers to do it. Needless to say his appeal got some attention.

Long and short of it, if you feel you have been denied for no good reason, appeal it. Sometimes the NICS records are not up to date.

-Vick
 

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broken wallet said:
You know if your not gonna pass either you lied on the paperwork or you know you have been convicted of a crime So whats the problem they did their job and you lied now pay the piper.
That is not true at all. I owned a gun store and there are MANY reasons the NICS check does not come back as an immediate positive, none of which has to do with the person being a criminal or the person having lied. Sometimes the NICS can't find ANY info on a person. That means they hold up the purchase until they can find info. They can only do that delay for a few days then it defaults and the persin gets the gun. NICS also does NOT provide a reason for the denial. I've had LE personel denied. Even LE can get things like domestic problems get in the way of passing the NICS. Names can get cross referenced by mistake.

To be charged is BS. Don't do any business with them. The NICS is a fast and simple process.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Alright, this is just a question, nothing more. I didn't and never have been denied. I was held for about ten minutes a couple times (always at the same dealer) but that's it. The only gun I bought at that show was on my C&R license so no NICS check needed.

I was just wondering if a store is within their right to withhold your property, a government issued license until you pay them. I suppose if they have a sign clearly posted they're within their rights to charge you, but I can't imagine it's legal for them to keep your drivers license if you refuse to pay them.

Now if I were denied for some reason or a hold was placed at an out of state gun show where I wasn't willing to drive back 3 days later to pick up the gun when it went through I'd be annoyed enough about it not going through. If on top of that they told me with no sign posted to pay them or they are keeping my license especially if they want $50 I'd be really pissed and tell them to shove it. Would I just be out of my license in this situation or could I go find one of the uniformed LEOs walking around the show and ask to file a report for theft against the dealer?

Parashooter said:
I wonder if they do that to prevent "Hey I wonder if I'll get away with it" attempts by people who KNOW they're prohibited.
I'd say that's exactly why they do it. They probably get people who are denied then say something like "that always happens".

On another note if a felon is denied a NICS check do they get flagged for a phone call or visit to ask them what they are doing trying to buy a gun?
 

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VolkoSupply said:
It's kind of gray territory.

We don't do as many transfers as full blown stores do, but we've only had one full blown "denied" transfer.

If you think you are wrongly denied, you can appeal it. The process may take some time, but it's in your interest to clear your name. That's what our customer did.

During the "Mosin 100" we heard an interesting story.......someone was having a NICS check done and was denied. First time ever, clean record, and had purchased plenty of firearms through stores over the years. He appealed it and found out that the person on the other end of the NICS check was mad at the dealer doing the check for some reason and was just denying transfers to do it. Needless to say his appeal got some attention.

Long and short of it, if you feel you have been denied for no good reason, appeal it. Sometimes the NICS records are not up to date.

-Vick
Vick, I think you're thinking of me... Yep, the person on the gov't end of the phone started out with a pissy attitude, was giving the dealer a hard time, then denied me. and took 20 minutes to do it.

I did NOT however appeal the denial - I immediately went to the call center (I found out it was local) and raised hell with a supervisor. The supervisor looked into it, reversed the denial, gave the person an attitude adjustment and told me to go back to the show 'here's their direct line' and have the dealer re-run the check. Immediately when the dealer got on the phone he looks up at me amazed "it's like a whole different person now!" polite, quick, and efficient.

I too often get delayed though. Too many people with very similar names in my area (5, only one isn't family, and he's got a history) I was delayed for the Mosin, the next week I wasn't, the next purchase they started with "further review" and cleared it before ending the call, this week delayed again... It's so aggravating!
 

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Parashooter said:
Well, if you 'failed' (received a DENIAL) You're a criminal and have other things to worry about...
Just because you fail ((((DOSE NOT MAKE YOU A CRIMINAL))))) thats first.

Is it legal yes they have the right to charge you for doing a service. Even if you get a denial or delay. The dealer is still putting in his time and using his phone and so on.
Now is it moral?
If it was at the dealers store. I would say NO they should just take it as a loss.
If it is at a gun show then i'd say they should charge.
I know when you go to the shows out here there is one or two guys there just to do NICS checks and thats how they make their money for the day.
 

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Parashooter said:
Vick, I think you're thinking of me... Yep, the person on the gov't end of the phone started out with a pissy attitude, was giving the dealer a hard time, then denied me. and took 20 minutes to do it.

I did NOT however appeal the denial - I immediately went to the call center (I found out it was local) and raised hell with a supervisor. The supervisor looked into it, reversed the denial, gave the person an attitude adjustment and told me to go back to the show 'here's their direct line' and have the dealer re-run the check. Immediately when the dealer got on the phone he looks up at me amazed "it's like a whole different person now!" polite, quick, and efficient.

I too often get delayed though. Too many people with very similar names in my area (5, only one isn't family, and he's got a history) I was delayed for the Mosin, the next week I wasn't, the next purchase they started with "further review" and cleared it before ending the call, this week delayed again... It's so aggravating!
para, I respect your opinions and postings but how can you say... "Well, if you 'failed' (received a DENIAL) You're a criminal and have other things to worry about..." when in fact it happened to you???
 

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Parashooter said:
I think that shop was jerking your chain.... I purchased a rifle in PA last year, no "PA gun fee", AND had problems with the PAICS check (the operator was in a bad mood, denied me, went there and raised hell, got it reversed) and no mention of a 'failed NICS' fee either.
That was at the Harrisburg show.
I bought this gun back in 1998 it was a $15 fee which goes to PA.I saved $100 no yanking thanks! 8)
 

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Parashooter said:
Vick, I think you're thinking of me...

I too often get delayed though. Too many people with very similar names in my area (5, only one isn't family, and he's got a history) I was delayed for the Mosin, the next week I wasn't, the next purchase they started with "further review" and cleared it before ending the call, this week delayed again... It's so aggravating!
Para: yes thinking of you. didn't want to name names or tell full stories though.

Para's post also tells a lot of truth. There are four different outcomes really:

1. Approved (Yay!)
2. Further Review (computers are slow, common name, etc. This happens pretty frequently.......)
3. Delayed (something needs further checking, computers are down or really busy....etc.) A lot of times we are told the system is just too busy and that we'll have an answer in a few hours. This was especially true in the post election buying frenzy that went on. Other times it's a day or two.
4. Denied. If you think you were wrongfully denied.....appeal it. There is a system in place to do so.

If you have any questions, shoot me a message or give us a call.
-Vick
 

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I am told that a NICS delay at a gun show means that the delaer gets to take ownership of the gun. Whether or not you pay the priavte seller or the dealer does is confusing. If I was the delaer and had to pay the seller, my fee would be more like $1k.
 
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