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Mr. ¼ MOA
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I have high respect for those you choose to put their
lives on the line in efforts to protect others and to uphold
the law.

My only question is "how much" training do officers really
get when it comes to specific situations like robberies,
ambushes, pursuits, etc. We see this type of training
all the time with the FBI/CIA, but do police officers get
this type of training too? I'm sure along with real life
type training and knowledge, it can save lives.

Knowing is half the battle.

Peace,
GH-07
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The average officer doesn't see things that way. By nature, because we're strangers to them, they don't trust us. It's just part of the mentality. A civilian CCWer is not "one of them." They don't know us or what training we've had. We didn't go through the academy with them.

Schneiderman said:
I can't. CCW license holders are overwhelmingly less likely to commit crime than the average person. Officers have much more to fear from anyone who does not have a CCW than someone who does.

One particularly well documented example of the evidence:

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/convrates.htm
 

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SydneyH said:
http://www.nleomf.org/assets/pdfs/reports/2011-EOY-Report.pdf

Pretty sobering. I can understand why PO's get jittery around CCWers.
Actually the number of officer deaths due to firearms has consistently DROPPED as CCW has increaed in the U.S., from a high of 158 in 1971~72 to 68 in 2011.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The number of police fatalities from firearms has increased during the last 3 years. Has to do with the poor economy as opposed to the liberalization of CCW throughout the country.

2edgesword said:
Actually the number of officer deaths due to firearms has consistently DROPPED as CCW has increaed in the U.S., from a high of 158 in 1971~72 to 68 in 2011.
 

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SydneyH said:
The average officer doesn't see things that way. By nature, because we're strangers to them, they don't trust us. It's just part of the mentality. A civilian CCWer is not "one of them." They don't know us or what training we've had. We didn't go through the academy with them.
Are you a LEO?

I just don't quite get how you can speak for the "average officer".
 

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68 cops got killed NATIONWIDE. How "risky" is it?

Care to take a stab at how many people died in car accidents?

There are 40,00 cops in NYC alone- how many are there nationally?
 

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Captain Will said:
68 cops got killed NATIONWIDE. How "risky" is it?

Care to take a stab at how many people died in car accidents?

There are 40,00 cops in NYC alone- how many are there nationally?
Its a risky occupation, people dying in car accidents is something different.
There are probably not too many occupations that have a death rate like that.
 

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SydneyH said:
The average officer doesn't see things that way. By nature, because we're strangers to them, they don't trust us. It's just part of the mentality. A civilian CCWer is not "one of them." They don't know us or what training we've had. We didn't go through the academy with them.
That's called ignorance.

I'm not using the term pejoratively. I agree that many police seem to have a negative attitude toward civilian gun owners and CCWers in particular. Explaining the emotional factors that drive the attitude do not justify the attitude. The attitude is not supported by the facts. Training and education should be used to reduce it.

We shouldn't lay down and accept that police view us negatively when we choose to exercise our rights, especially when their tendency to view us as likely criminals is overwhelmingly contrary to the evidence.
 

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Most Dangerous Jobs 2011

10. Driver/Sales Workers and Truck Drivers
Fatality rate: 21.8/100,000
Total deaths: 683
Annual mean salary: $40,410

Truck drivers travel long distances for many hours, increasing the likelihood of highway accidents.

9. Refuse and Recycling Collectors
Fatality rate: 29.8/100,000
Total deaths: 26
Annual mean salary: $34,310

Despite more comprehensive safety measures that have helped to lower the fatality rate since 2006, garbage collectors are still exposed to harmful chemicals and dangerous machinery.

8. Roofers
Fatality rate: 32.4/100,000
Total deaths: 57
Annual mean salary: $37,880

Falls from ladders, scaffolds, and roofs are the main cause of fatal accidents in this occupation.

7. Mining Machine Operators
Fatality rate: 38.7/100,000
Total deaths: 23
Annual mean salary: $44,010

Mining machine operators work with machines that rip the coal, metal, and rock from the mine and then load it onto conveyors. Because they are working in tunnels and mine shafts, the dangers include the possibility of a cave-in, mine fires, explosions, or exposure to harmful gases.

6. Coal Miners
Fatality rate: 38.9/100,000
Total deaths: 43
Annual mean salary: $43,240

Coal miners face the same dangers as mining machine operators: the possibility of cave-in, mine fires, explosions, or exposure to harmful gases. In addition, dust generated from drilling places miners at risk for developing lung diseases.

5. Farmers and Ranchers
Fatality rate: 41.4/100,000
Total deaths: 300
Annual mean salary: $42,710

Farming and ranching may sound tame, but working with heavy machinery, harmful chemicals, and large animals makes this job especially dangerous.

4. Miscellaneous Extraction Workers
Fatality rate: 64.2/100,000
Total deaths: 26
Annual mean salary: $43,870
(Note: Salary includes construction and extraction occupations.)

Extraction workers examine and inspect work progress, equipment, and construction sites to verify safety and to ensure that specifications are met. The tasks of extraction workers involve physical labor while overseeing highway and heavy-construction projects, tunnel and shaft excavations, and demolition sites. Use of heavy power tools and exposure to hazardous materials contribute to the danger of this job.

3. Pilots and Flight Engineers
Fatality rate: 70.6/100,000
Total deaths: 78
Annual mean salary: $115,300

Particularly at risk of fatal injuries are test pilots who fly new or experimental planes, crop-duster pilots who may be exposed to harmful chemicals, and those who operate rescue helicopters.

2. Logging Workers
Fatality rate: 91.9/100,000
Total deaths: 59
Annual mean salary: $34,510

Responsible for cutting and hauling trees, logging workers can suffer mortal injury from falling branches and heavy machinery. Bad weather is also a contributing factor.

1. Fishing-Related Workers
Fatality rate: 116/100,000
Total deaths: 29
Annual mean salary: $27,880

This group is at risk of getting entangled in nets and other gear, or getting swept overboard. Additionally, injured workers are far from medical attention.

Most Dangerous Jobs 2011 was provided by CNBC.com
 

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Actually it was 164 total and 70 listed as gunfire for 2011 according to ODMP.  Up from 61 the year before.
 

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CHERRY911 said:
Its a risky occupation, people dying in car accidents is something different.
There are probably not too many occupations that have a death rate like that.
MY job is more dangerous than being a cop.
Being a cop is more dangerous than being an office worker, but a lot of jobs are more dangerous.

We THINK being a cop is dangerous, because that is what we are conditioned to think. there are some jobs we are "taught" are very dangerous (cops and soldiers come to mind, not sure what the stats are on firefighters) but which really- statistically- are not as dangerous as jobs we never even heard of (cannery ship worker, for example).

A lot more gypsy cab drivers get shot than cops. And there are a hell of a lot fewer of the former. Nobody EVER thanked a gypsy cab driver for "putting their lives on the line" to get them home from a bar at 4AM.
 

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warmnfuzzyar said:
Most Dangerous Jobs 2011

10. Driver/Sales Workers and Truck Drivers
Fatality rate: 21.8/100,000
Total deaths: 683
Annual mean salary: $40,410

Truck drivers travel long distances for many hours, increasing the likelihood of highway accidents.

9. Refuse and Recycling Collectors
Fatality rate: 29.8/100,000
Total deaths: 26
Annual mean salary: $34,310

Despite more comprehensive safety measures that have helped to lower the fatality rate since 2006, garbage collectors are still exposed to harmful chemicals and dangerous machinery.

8. Roofers
Fatality rate: 32.4/100,000
Total deaths: 57
Annual mean salary: $37,880

Falls from ladders, scaffolds, and roofs are the main cause of fatal accidents in this occupation.

7. Mining Machine Operators
Fatality rate: 38.7/100,000
Total deaths: 23
Annual mean salary: $44,010

Mining machine operators work with machines that rip the coal, metal, and rock from the mine and then load it onto conveyors. Because they are working in tunnels and mine shafts, the dangers include the possibility of a cave-in, mine fires, explosions, or exposure to harmful gases.

6. Coal Miners
Fatality rate: 38.9/100,000
Total deaths: 43
Annual mean salary: $43,240

Coal miners face the same dangers as mining machine operators: the possibility of cave-in, mine fires, explosions, or exposure to harmful gases. In addition, dust generated from drilling places miners at risk for developing lung diseases.

5. Farmers and Ranchers
Fatality rate: 41.4/100,000
Total deaths: 300
Annual mean salary: $42,710

Farming and ranching may sound tame, but working with heavy machinery, harmful chemicals, and large animals makes this job especially dangerous.

4. Miscellaneous Extraction Workers
Fatality rate: 64.2/100,000
Total deaths: 26
Annual mean salary: $43,870
(Note: Salary includes construction and extraction occupations.)

Extraction workers examine and inspect work progress, equipment, and construction sites to verify safety and to ensure that specifications are met. The tasks of extraction workers involve physical labor while overseeing highway and heavy-construction projects, tunnel and shaft excavations, and demolition sites. Use of heavy power tools and exposure to hazardous materials contribute to the danger of this job.

3. Pilots and Flight Engineers
Fatality rate: 70.6/100,000
Total deaths: 78
Annual mean salary: $115,300

Particularly at risk of fatal injuries are test pilots who fly new or experimental planes, crop-duster pilots who may be exposed to harmful chemicals, and those who operate rescue helicopters.

2. Logging Workers
Fatality rate: 91.9/100,000
Total deaths: 59
Annual mean salary: $34,510

Responsible for cutting and hauling trees, logging workers can suffer mortal injury from falling branches and heavy machinery. Bad weather is also a contributing factor.

1. Fishing-Related Workers
Fatality rate: 116/100,000
Total deaths: 29
Annual mean salary: $27,880

This group is at risk of getting entangled in nets and other gear, or getting swept overboard. Additionally, injured workers are far from medical attention.

Most Dangerous Jobs 2011 was provided by CNBC.com
for those who missed it
 

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While there are jobs that are more dangerous then law enforcement or military most of those deaths are caused by accident.  Many of the law enforcement and military deaths are intentional.  I am sure gang banger ranks pretty high on the list too, but you never hear  them complaining.
 

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An office worker can have a stress related heart attack at work and it not  listed as job related, he didn't get his leg caught in the copy machine.  Accidental death is completely different from murder.  A cop gets shot it is murder, period.  Not to mention all the cops that get seriously hurt or killed in a car.  That stuff happens when you are on the road all day spending quite a bit of time navigating traffic in a responding to emergency state. Not to mention all the injuries suffered from dealing with bad guys from black eyes to blown out knees.   I would imagine FD and EMS has a pretty high rate of traffic injuries as well.  All occupations have related risks but how many fisherman have you seen shot in the line of duty while responding to your call for help.   The fisherman would have stayed at the bar unless there was money in it for him.   A different calling that is all.  Soldiers, that is a whole different story.  You cannot give enough respect to someone who puts his life out there for his country at the prime of his life for $18,000 a year.  
 

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If your place of employment bursts into flames, or a maniac decides to rob it, or shoot the place up, you'd run out of it and try to get away from the danger.

Cops and firefighters run toward it.

That's why they're respected.
 

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SydneyH said:
http://www.nleomf.org/assets/pdfs/reports/2011-EOY-Report.pdf

Pretty sobering. I can understand why PO's get jittery around CCWers.
I agree seeing how so many police officers are gunned down by people that have FBI background checks and safety classes....OH WAIT, it doesn't happen very often at all..
 

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I don't know why people seems to think that cops are anti ccw.  Haveing worked in law enforcement 15 years and knowing alot of cops I just don't see it.  
 

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CHERRY911 said:
While there are jobs that are more dangerous then law enforcement or military most of those deaths are caused by accident. Many of the law enforcement and military deaths are intentional. I am sure gang banger ranks pretty high on the list too, but you never hear them complaining.
Quick question: Was the recent shooting of ATF officer Capano an "accident" or was it "intentional"?

I wonder how many of the 165/170 deaths a year are line of duty accidents and how much are intentional shootings.
 
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