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Notes about buying a S&W

23K views 43 replies 30 participants last post by  NRATC53 
#1 ·
From time to time, questions arise with members wanting to buy a Smith and Wesson Revolver. New or Used, Smith and Wessons are great guns, and they are highly collectible and highly shootable. I wanted to write something up that would answer most of the questions a person may have when getting Smith and Wesson revolvers. By no means am I an "expert", but I wanted to share what I know about them so you'd have a better understanding of what to look for and what to stay away from.

First, I want to define some terms that come up when discussing Smiths. They aren't exclusive to the brand, but you should know them if you're looking to get a S&W.

Parts:

1. Frame - The serial numbered piece of metal that is the gun. Most newer Smiths have a serial number where the yoke rotates into the frame, All of them have a serial number on the bottom of the frame handle. The frame is the gun minus the barrel, cylinder assembly, yoke, hammer, trigger assembly, rebound slide, sights, sideplate and mainspring.

2. Yoke - The yoke is the piece that mounts the Cylinder Assembly (utilizing the cylinder crane), and attaches it to the frame. I have seen the terms "yoke" and "cylinder crane" used interchangeably. I call the yoke the entire piece, and the crane the thin tube that the extractor rod passes through and the cylinder rides on. I could be wrong though.

3. Barrel - The tube that is rifled, with the crown at the muzzle end, and forcing cone at the breech end.

4. Forcing Cone - The breech end of the barrel; it funnels the bullet from the charge holes of the cylinder into the rifling of the barrel. It is not a separate part, but integral to the barrel.

5. Cylinder Assembly - The cylinder, extractor star, center pin and extractor rod of the revolver. The extractor star ejects the spent brass or live rounds from the cylinder. It is also an important part of the ratchet system of the revolver.

6. Sideplate - The part which encloses the operating mechanism of the gun. Much older guns attach it with 4 screws, newer guns have three.

7. Hammer - On models produced before the early nineties, the firing pin was on the hammer. Newer models have the firing pin mounted to the frame. It also contains the sear. Rimfire firing pins have been frame mounted much longer than centerfire models.

8. Trigger assembly - contains the trigger, the hand, handspring, and the rebound slide strut. In older triggers, the rebound slide strut is riveted to the trigger. In newer triggers, its free floating.

9. Hand - Attached to the trigger, the hand is a lever that interfaces with the ratcheted face of the extractor star. It is an important part of the timing of the revolver.

10. Bosses - The bosses are the studs upon which the hammer, trigger and cylinder stop are mounted.

11. Cylinder stop - the spring loaded piece that allows the cylinder to rotate and stops it from rotating; its an important piece of the timing of the revolver.

12. Rebound slide - A spring loaded piece, located behind the trigger, whose spring tension affects the weight of the trigger pull, and the ability for the trigger to reset.

13. Mainspring - the spring attached via a stirrup to the hammer assembly whose tension affects trigger pull weight and the force with which the hammer drops on the primer of the cartridge. J-Frames have coiled mainsprings, all others have leaf springs

14. Strain Screw - a screw that is driven through the frame, whose length will determine the amount of pressure (or strain) put on the mainspring.

15. Cylinder Release/ Thumbpiece - the part of the revolver attached to the bolt which engages the center pin retained in the cylinder assembly, releasing the cylinder to be rotated out of the frame.

16. Underlug - a chunk of metal that shadows the bottom of the barrel to add weight and manage recoil. Model variants may be described as having a "full lug" or "partial lug". It contains the spring loaded detent that is engaged by the center pin, and is integral to the rotation of the cylinder out of the frame.

17. Bobbed Hammer - an exposed hammer whose spur has been removed, and the single action ledge on the bottom of the hammer has been removed so that the revolver only functions in double action mode.

18. Concealed Hammer - The hammer is completely enclosed within the frame/sideplate. Double action only.

19. Shrouded Hammer - The hammer peeks out through protrusions in the frame/ sideplate. Capable of single action and double action firing.

20. Target Hammer - a hammer with a larger spur that allows good purchase to place the gun in single action mode.

21. Hammer Block - A thin flared pin which blocks the hammer from dropping until the trigger is pulled all the way to the rear.

22. Target trigger - a wide trigger to provide greater purchase/ control while firing

23. Stocks - grips are referred to as stocks in the Smith and Wesson world. Combat stocks generally have finger grooves, target stocks are large to provide a good grip. Presentation stocks are fancied up versions of combat, service or target stocks and generally have a finer finish and are made from more exotic materials.

24. Grip adapter - aftermarket pieces to be used with service stocks to adapt a service stock into a combat grip. Examples were manufactured by Tyler, Pachmayr and S&W.

25. Baughman sights - a stepped ramp front sight

26. Patridge sights - a stepped front sight with a flat surface facing the shooter

27. Ramp sight - the standard sight made integral with the barrel

28. Charging holes - the holes at the front of the cylinder which, when in battery, line up with the forcing cone of the barrel.

29. Tapered/Pencil Barrel - A thin barrel that is lighter than bull barrels. Tapers from the forcing cone end to the muzzle

30. Bull Barrel - A barrel built with more material and of uniform outer thickness over its length. Its weight produces less muzzle flip and felt recoil.

Other terms:

DAO - double action only; a revolver whose hammer cannot be cocked and held at the rearmost position, thus incapable of single action mode.

Boogered - using a screwdriver that doesn't fit the screws on a Smith and Wesson will result in boogered screw heads, and frequently scratched, or worse, gouged, surrounding surfaces. I will provide links later to get the proper screwdrivers in the resources section.

Bubba'd - Performing a modification to the gun that you don't know how to do and going too far; most commonly used in relation to a trigger job

Trigger Job - can be as simple as replacing the rebound slide spring and mainspring, or doing that and polishing the interface surfaces of the trigger, hammer, rebound slide and cylinder stop. Polishing those parts can be overdone and will then it becomes required that they be professionally resurfaced or replaced (ask me how I know, but please don't call me Bubba!)

Timing - is EVERYTHING. I'd swear that axiom was coined for Smith and Wesson revolvers. When you pull the trigger to the rear, its strut pushes the rebound slide against its spring. The cylinder stop, interfaced to the top front of the trigger assembly, retracts into the frame, allowing the hand, also attached to the trigger to begin to ratchet the cylinder's rotation. The trigger also interfaces with the hammer, cocking it back, and against the mainspring. When the trigger trips the sear, the cylinder stop must have been previously tripped, locking the cylinder and (hopefully) the charging holes are lined up with the forcing cone of the barrel. You are performing the same functions when hand cocking the hammer, only in single action mode, the trigger engages a ledge on the hammer that is .0041 inches wide, and stays there until the now almost fully pulled trigger gets its final, light pull and drops the hammer. That is the essence of timing. A poorly timed revolver can be at least inaccurate, at most it can be dangerous.

Wobble - Guns wear out. Every time they fire, they exert some pretty serious pressure on the parts. The more its fired, the more the gun will loosen up over time. Wobble refers to the amount the cylinder moves side to side while its locked into the frame. It usually means that someone held the hammer back just enough to enable the gun to have its cylinder spun or to index the charging holes. Try not to do that. It will eventually wear the cylinder stop and the corresponding indents on the cylinder. Wobble is unavoidable if the gun has been fired. Excessive wobble is a sign of unnecessary abuse. Keep in mind though that brand new guns will wobble. Its not a bad thing, but if its enough that the cylinder doesn't lock, can be rotated clockwise after the stop is engaged, or shakes side to side enough that its no longer in battery (the charging hole is significantly off center from the forcing cone)...you have some expensive repairs ahead.

Flipping the cylinder - When the cylinder is out of the frame, don't flip it back in with a flick of your wrist. Will it screw it up the first time? No...but it will eventually.

Snub - A revolver that has a barrel of less than 2 1/2 inches, designed for concealed carry. All frame sizes have snub versions except the X-Frame...yet.

Round butt - a revolver whose rear most surface of the grip handle curves downward.

Square butt - a revolver whose rear most surface of the grip handle is straight

Internal Lock - A safety mechanism which renders the gun inoperable

MIM - Metal Injection Molding, a process using an alloy compound that is melted and injected into a mold. Deemed less than desirable by collectors over the traditional forged parts

Case Colors - The effect of case hardening on forged parts; it appears as wavy, rainbow colored swirls on parts treated with this process. The more distinct and colorful, the greater the allure to collectors. Wears over time, particularly with harsh solvent cleaners.

Description of Frame Sizes

This is a description of the most common frame sizes. There are others, but they are beyond the scope of this post.

J-Frame - Smith and Wesson's smallest frame revolver. The largest caliber that they make for this frame is .357 Magnum. They are chambered for .22lr, .22 Magnum, .32 (most flavors, and getting rare), .327 Federal Magnum, .38 sp, 9mm (getting pricey also), and .357 Magnum.

K-Frame - Medium size frame; Chambered in .22lr, .22 Magnum, .32 (kinda rare), .38 sp, 9mm and .357 Magnum

L-Frame - Similar in size to a K-Frame, these guns can share stocks with them as well. Side by side, an L-frame is "taller" than a K-Frame and shares internal parts. Chambered in .357 Magnum, 10mm, .40 S&W and .44 sp

N-Frame - This used to be Smith's largest frame. They are chambered in .357, .41 Magnum, .44sp, .44 Magnum, .45ACP, .45LC

X-Frame - The largest frame, this one chambered in .460 (capable of firing .45 LC and .454 Casull) and the .500 S&W Magnum

Function Checks

Check:

Loaded: make sure the gun is unloaded by pointing it in a safe direction, rotating the cylinder out and plunging the extractor.

External: No pitting, no rust. No excessive wear on the finish. Check for cracks in the frame. Grips not damaged/chipped. Most common area for pitting is on the frame, behind the cylinder, underneath the thumbpiece (especially if it was carried by a right handed person). Rust can be anywhere. No obvious gouges to the metal on any major component (frame, cylinder, barrel) No bent components. Normal wear is the drag mark on the cylinder; its unavoidable. In fact, be aware that the lack of a drag mark could be an indication that the cylinder is not original to the gun (not a bad thing, but it reduces the value). Other normal wear is the worn bluing in the flanks of the barrel near the muzzle end and on the cylinder. These are indications that the gun was carried in a holster for extended periods of time (this can be a good thing; most police trade-ins or armed guard trade-ins have been "carried a lot, fired little" and make excellent shooters). You're not looking at cosmetic booboos, but indications of serious damage from being dropped, run over, etc.

First function check: Cylinder rotation. While the cylinder is rotated out of the gun, spin it. If it doesn't spin freely, check the front of the cylinder for gunk/lead build up/dirt. That could explain why it doesn't spin so freely. Once thoroughly cleaned, you should be fine. If it wobbles and appears to bind while spinning, it could indicate a bent center pin or cylinder crane. The parts are cheap, but the labor isn't. Best to move on. Plunge the extractor and make sure it doesn't bind.

Second function check: Yoke/Crane condition. Gently rotate the cylinder back into the frame. If it binds, again, the parts are cheap but the labor isn't...move on. Binding can mean that the extractor rod to extractor star interface may be stripped. The extractor star should be fitted by a gunsmith or the factory; it is NOT an amateur/ enthusiast job.

Third Function Check: Cylinder stop/timing. Slowly and steadily pull the trigger back (after checking again that its not loaded and pointed in a safe direction), watch the bottom of the cylinder where the cylinder stop engages the cylinder. You'll hear a click, that's the cylinder stop disengaging the cylinder and pulling back into the frame. The cylinder will start to rotate. Continue to very slowly pull back the trigger, the cylinder stop should pop up and lock the cylinder before the hammer drops or the gun is not timed properly. A gunsmith can adjust the timing, but again, the labor ain't cheap. If you're going to pull all the way through on the trigger, ask the owner first; some don't like people dry firing their guns. Or, bring dummy ammo for the caliber gun you're checking. However, once you hear that second "click" of the cylinder stop, you can stop your trigger pull.

Fourth Function Check: Lockup. Cock the hammer on an unloaded revolver. Release the hammer, but keep both your trigger finger all the way to the rear, and ride the hammer back into its decocked position. With the trigger to the rear, slowly and carefully allow the trigger to rebound. Along the way, you will feel the trigger reset. Stop there, pulling to the rear, and that will lock up the action. Its tricky at first (even more so on newer J-Frame revolvers!), but you will get the hang of it. Once locked up, you will notice that the cylinder won't move, and the trigger won't move to the rear unless you unlock it by allowing the trigger to fully reset to the front. Locking the revolver up gives an indication of condition of the moving parts of the internals of the gun. If you hold the trigger all the way to the rear before resetting the hammer, the gun is still locked up, but the exception is that the hammer can still be moved. If the cylinder wobbles excessively in lockup...you may have worn internal parts, or worse, a worn cylinder or extractor star (yikes). If the gun won't lock up at all, it might be pretty far gone. On double action only revolvers, you'll have to dry fire the gun to perform this test...bring dummy ammo and ask first!

Fifth Function Check: Push off. This is a problem that could be dangerous. Cock the hammer back on an unloaded revolver (with dummy ammo and permission). Use your thumb to try to "push off" the hammer and make it drop. Do not try to force the hammer; in single action mode, the hammer and trigger are interfaced on a ledge that is only .0041 of an inch wide. You WILL eventually be able to push that hammer off on any gun, but you'll be doing damage that will likely induce the problem you're trying to detect. Use moderate force. If it does push off, then you have a either a worn hammer, worn trigger or the remnants of a Bubba trigger job. The parts, in this case, are relatively expensive (around $50 each). The bright side is, they're easy to replace yourself.

Sixth Function Check: Endshake/Cylinder gap/"wobble". Over time, the gun loosens up. How bad it loosens up will affect accuracy, function and in extreme situations, safety. The barrel to cylinder gap is a very important metric...in an effort for simplicity and clarity...too much gap is bad because the bullets will have to traverse that gap and enter the forcing cone, that could lead to lead spitting (where molten lead is shaved off the bullets and splashed against the front frame around the barrel), jacket separation, which could lead to dangerous shrapnel in some cases, and generally, degraded accuracy. Too little gap can cause binding and a need to constantly clean the gun for it to function properly. S&W puts the spec between .005 and .01 inches as an acceptable cylinder gap (which can only really be checked with a feeler gauge). Endshake is the difference between the barrel/cylinder gap and that same gap when the cylinder is moved as rearward as possible while the cylinder is locked in the frame. Eyeballing endshake and b/c gap is not accurate. If you're looking for a tackdriver, bring feeler gauges. If you're looking for a shooter, eyeball it or use a business card (I read somewhere that if you have a thin plasticized medical insurance card, it measures .006), but realize that if you're spitting lead and your accuracy suffers, you may need to have the yoke stretched, the strut peened, or the cylinder shimmed to get it back to spec. Not huge jobs, but kinda tough for novices. Wobble refers to the amount the cylinder moves side to side while its locked into the frame. It usually means that someone held the hammer back just enough to disengage the hand, but not retract the cylinder stop. This enables the gun to have its cylinder spun or to index the charging holes. Try not to do that. It will eventually wear the cylinder stop and the corresponding indents on the cylinder. Wobble is unavoidable if the gun has been fired. Excessive wobble is a sign of unnecessary abuse. Keep in mind though that brand new guns will wobble. Its not a bad thing, but if its enough that the cylinder doesn't lock, can be rotated clockwise after the stop is engaged, or shakes side to side enough that its no longer in battery (the charging hole is significantly off center from the forcing cone)...you have some expensive repairs ahead.

The Barrel: Check for distinctive lands and grooves, a bright bore, and VERY importantly, check for a bulged barrel. A bulged barrel is the result of a squibbed round getting rear ended by another bullet that didn't squib. It will mean the gun will have to be rebarreled. S&W revolver barrels are best changed by a gunsmith. To check for a bulged barrel, look for a dark ring inside the barrels rifling.
The forcing cone is where the bullets, which are fired out of the cylinder chambers, are channeled into the end of the barrel and where they engage the rifling of the barrel. Look for deep gouges, lead pooling or anything that looks like it will disrupt the smooth channeling of a bullet going really fast.

Other Checks: Check to see that the trigger and hammer ride straight and aren't cocked to one side, if they are, their bosses might be bent. Make sure the cylinder release/thumbpiece operate smoothly.

Cleaning:

A lot of the cosmetic quibbles can be remedied pretty easily with a good cleaning. A good cleaning will also resolve a lot of the mechanical problems you may think are there.

Upon Purchase:

New Guns/ Any dirty gun:

Lubricate the barrel with a mop and solvent, follow with a copper brush. Use a chamber brush to scour the forcing cone for carbon/lead/ copper fouling. Run patches through until clean, oil with your favorite light oil. Repeat for the cylinder, giving attention to each chamber. Remove layered fouling from the face of the cylinder near the charge holes. "Ghost Rings" can be removed, but it really isn't necessary. If its important to you, you can remove ghost rings with the lead removal wipes, but be aware that its possible to remove the bluing by doing this. It is also possible to polish them out using Mother's billet wheel polish, but use it sparingly; you are removing some material by polishing. Don't go nuts or use it too frequently. You can polish right through the bluing using this method. Clean the top strap, especially the space between the barrel/ forcing cone and the top strap. Look for carbon fouling/ lead spitting and remove. Oil the gun as you see fit. If its going to sit, leave a light film of oil to prevent rust, or use a silicone impregnated gun sock.

Old Guns:

(Don't do this without the proper tools....you risk messing up the gun.) Do the steps above, but also remove the sideplate via the screws, after first removing the stocks. The sideplate should NOT fall out of the frame. DO NOT PRY IT!!!! Take a rubber mallet and gently tap the frame at the grip handle. You'll notice that the sideplate will work itself away from the frame. Before a subsequent tap sends it flying, remove the sideplate. The hammer block may fall out also. Not a big deal. Spray with degreaser to get the gunk out and re oil the bosses of the parts. Try to get oil underneath the rebound slide and onto any other moving parts. Push down on the hammer and trigger to make sure they are properly seated on their bosses. Replace the hammer block by mounting the eyed end over the small stud on the rebound slide, and the other end between front of the hammer and the frame where the firing pin passes through. Replace the sideplate by inserting the notch at the top into the frame and then lightly pressing down over the screw holes. It should be a snug fit, but if its not closing, don't force it. Adjust the hammer block (which is probably in the way) and try again. Once it feels like its going to go, gently tap it with the rubber mallet until it fully seats. Replace the screws.

Note: to remove the yoke and cylinder, loosen the sideplate screw closest to the front of the gun, and wiggle the yoke out. Reverse the order to replace it.

Stock Removal:

Loosen the screw and if they are on tightly, wiggle them off. Don't try to pry them off with a tool, you'll splinter them.

Customization

Trigger job - In order to make the trigger pull lighter/ smoother you can change the mainspring and rebound slide spring. Doing so will result in a trigger that's easier to pull, but may not strike the primer hard enough to ignite it, especially on rimfire cartridges. It is possible to further smooth the pull by polishing the interface points on the trigger, hammer, rebound slide and cylinder stop, but if you overdo it, you may mess them up and as said before, you will need to either have them resurfaced or replaced.

Stocks - Replacing stocks is easy, and a wide selection is available from the aftermarket.

Finishing - Many firms offer refinishing of Smith and Wesson revolvers. Smith and Wesson will do it also. See the resources section.

Sights - Almost always requires some sort of fitting. Always fit the sight to the gun, not the gun to the sight.

Resources

Tools:

Screwdrivers:

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=413/Product/S-W-SCREWDRIVER

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=406/Product/S-W-REVOLVER-COMBO

Rebound Slide Spring Removal Tool:

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=774/Product/S-W-REBOUND-SLIDE-SPRING-TOOL

Extractor Rod Tool (for disconnecting the extractor rod from the extractor star):

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=26886/Product/EXTRACTOR-ROD-TOOL

Resources:

The Kuhnhausen Shop Manual:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/314178/the-s-and-w-revolver-a-shop-manual-book-by-jerry-kuhnhausen

The Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/30...-edition-book-by-jim-supica-and-richard-nahas

Jerry Miculek's Assembly/ Disassembly Video:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/47...-k-l-n-frame-revolvers-with-jerry-miculek-dvd

Jerry Miculek's Trigger Job video:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/47...-k-l-n-frame-revolvers-with-jerry-miculek-dvd

Youtube videos:





Smith and Wesson Gunsmithing Services:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...4_750001_750051_775657_-1_757896_757896_image

The above link changes from time to time. If you click on it and you're not brought there, do a google search for "Smith and Wesson Precision Gunsmithing Services"

Gemini Custom:

http://www.geminicustoms.com/

Cylinder and Slide:

http://www.cylinder-slide.com/

And finally, Pics:

Tapered/ Pencil Barrel:



Bull Barrel:



Round Butt:



Square Butt:



Full Underlug:



Half Lug:



No Lug:



Extractor Star:



Extractor Rod:



Forcing Cone:



Target Stocks:



Combat Stocks:



Service Stocks with Grip Adapter on a Snub Nose Revolver:



Personal opinions/observations about different frame sizes/models:

J-Frame .357's HURT. The .38's are significantly more pleasant to shoot
L-Frame and N-Frame .357's are up to the task of consistently (or exclusively) shooting .357 loads. They still kick, but you're not going to wear them out shooting .357's for a while.
K-Frame .357's aren't going to last on a steady diet of magnum loads. They will loosen up and it will start to cost you money to fix it...and now because people will know better when buying them, you can't glom them off on your fellow Long Islanders anymore!

Fixed sight S&W revolvers shoot to point of aim at around 15 yards with 158 grain bullets. They'll shoot low at lesser distances. Cheapo lead semi wadcutters are just fine, but dirty.

Don't pay more than $350 retail for a used Model 10. They just don't warrant that much money. And for $350, it better be near perfect. Add a premium if it has the box (it almost never does). The same goes for the other common S&W gun...the Model 36. There's just too many of them around to pay too much for them.

Be aware that models that are usually seen as blued were usually available in nickel. Add a premium to the price if its factory nickel. If it has a box, it should say nickel on the box. If you can't verify that its a factory nickel, don't pay a premium for it. It should be up to the seller to provide provenance for a premium feature. The Smith and Wesson historical "letter" from Roy Jinks is proof positive of the configuration it was in when it left the factory, but it costs money. If a seller is charging the premium for a feature...let them pay for it if they don't have the box.

If you buy a K-Frame Smith and Wesson chambered for .38 Special, verify its date of manufacture before shooting +P rounds through it. If it was manufactured before 1958, don't...it can't handle +P loads.

Avoid "parts kits" as a resource for parts. These kits are usually made up from parts stripped off of guns with an irreparable frame. They will often be in worse shape than the parts you're trying to replace.

I'll update this thread as I remember stuff, (or learn it). If anyone has anything to add or correct, please do so. I'll edit the original accordingly. If anyone has any questions, just ask!
 
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#11 ·
The remedy for bad timing can be as cheap as replacing the hand with an oversized one (available at Midway and Brownell's). Where it gets tricky is when you've already changed the hand, and its still not timed properly. That may mean that the ratchets on the extractor star are no good. That part needs to be fit by a gunsmith; it has to be custom fitted to the cylinder.

Its ok to buy a Smith that you know has issues, as long as you're willing to send it back to S&W to get it fixed, just make sure you don't pay too much for it. Timing issues could take a couple of hundred to fix (if the entire cylinder needs to be changed), but a hand is about 15 bucks and can be replaced yourself.
 
#14 ·
I've read a number of books by Patrick Sweeney and John Taffin, both well regarded writers in the gun community, but they don't do as good a job as our own Ox.
Frank, You really need to find a publisher and stop giving all this info away for free! LOL!
Excellent job, thanks.

Dov
 
#16 ·
Wow thanks for all that information. Excellent reference.
 
#18 ·
Outstanding, Ox. Thank you.

I currently have 11 S&W revolvers in the stable. Your posts are invaluable.
 
#20 ·
I know this is an older tread but just wanted to thank you Big OX. I am still waiting for my permit but was thinking about a S&W model 10 I saw at T&Ts. Just like the looks of a revolvers. My main concern in any gun I buy is safety.
 
#22 ·
Frank I just picked up a 10 friday I hope its not the same one .. If so sorry about that ...
 
#27 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hey The Big Ox, I got my handgun permit last Dec. and my first handgun was the S&W Model 10. I have been shooting for over 40 years mostly long guns, handguns just never really interested me. But for the past few years I have seen changes coming so I put in for my permit. And thanks to your post I was able to check out the gun pretty well before I purchased it. I have had it out to the range a number of times and love it. Still trying to get the hang of the sights, hitting low and to the left about 2-3 inches but not sure if its the gun or me. Thanks again.
Frank
 
#28 · (Edited by Moderator)
Glad to hear it Frank!

Make sure the barrel isn't canted (it probably isn't), make sure there's no fouling at the forcing cone (there might be), look for lead spitting on the frame near the forcing cone (there might be that also), make sure the crown and rifling are in good shape and make sure you're using 158gr bullets.

If the barrel isn't canted, and its not shaving lead at the forcing cone, and you're using 158gr bullets, and the rifling/crown are okay, it might be you. If you're not using 158gr ammo, adjust your aim higher and right and tear the X outta that target!
 
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