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question for someone savvy on WW2 - 03A1's...


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#1 Tioga RT

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Posted March 04 2021 - 11:22 AM

Looking at a local WW2 Remington 03' to replace the one I sold years back. Looks good...but...unlike other WW2 03 A1's..this one has the folding leaf rear sight, at the front of the receiver..vs...the typical adj sight installed on the rear of the receiver (no modifications noticed). Based on serial #/build dates...this is an early production rifle. Could that be the reason for this difference?



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#2 only7rounds2

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Posted March 04 2021 - 01:53 PM

1903 Springfields had the barrel mounted sight. 1903A3 Springfields had the flip sight.

You need to provide more detail about the gun. EARLY pre-WWI guns are not considered shooters due to brittle receivers.



#3 Gary_Hungerford

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Posted March 04 2021 - 02:20 PM

R

 

1903 Springfields had the barrel mounted sight. 1903A3 Springfields had the flip sight.

You need to provide more detail about the gun. EARLY pre-WWI guns are not considered shooters due to brittle receivers.

Right on point! Early 1903s are not safe to shoot.

 

Per Wikipedia:

    By the time of US entry into World War I, 843,239 of these rifles had been produced, at Springfield Armory and Rock Island Arsenal. Pre-war production utilized questionable metallurgy. Some receivers constructed of single-heat-treated, case-hardened steel were improperly subjected to excessive temperatures, during the forging process. The carbon could be "burnt" out of the steel, producing a brittle receiver.  Despite documented evidence, indicating some early rifles were improperly forged, actual cases of failure were very rare. Although several cases of serious injury, from receiver failure, were documented, the US Army never reported any fatalities. Many failures were attributed to use of incorrect cartridges, such as the 7.92Ă—57mm Mauser. Evidence also seems to suggest that improperly forged brass cartridge cases could have exacerbated receiver failure.
    Pyrometers were installed, in December, 1917, to accurately measure temperatures, during the forging process. The change was made, at approximately serial number 800,000, for rifles made at Springfield Armory and at serial number 285,507, at Rock Island Arsenal. Lower serial numbers are known as "low-number" M1903 rifles. Higher serial numbers are said to be "double-heat-treated."

 

Gary



#4 only7rounds2

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Posted March 04 2021 - 04:40 PM

Of course, any pre 800,000 that has survived to this day being re-barreled several times is probably fine. But why take a chance?



#5 Gary_Hungerford

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Posted March 05 2021 - 08:00 AM

Of course, any pre 800,000 that has survived to this day being re-barreled several times is probably fine. But why take a chance?

Even re-barrelled, I would still have concern about the receiver.

Gary


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#6 Tioga RT

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Posted March 06 2021 - 11:26 AM

This  is a first/or second  month of production..Jan 43' Remington 03-A3. Find it hard to believe someone would go to the trouble of dismounting the adj rear sight and remounting the earlier folding front leaf sight.esp..if is being sold as a WW2 03'A3.. 



#7 Tioga RT

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Posted March 06 2021 - 11:27 AM

..and the serial number corresponds to that WW2 production timeframe.



#8 Tioga RT

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Posted March 06 2021 - 11:32 AM

...I also see the mistake I first made in posting ( keyboard mistake)......Its serial # / mauf. make it 03-A3...and is being sold as such.


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#9 JR79

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Posted March 06 2021 - 09:19 PM

Having owned quite a few Springfield 03s, I'll clear up a few things. Remington did get a contract to produce M1903s early in the war. They got the tooling from Springfield and Rock island. Shortly after the design was modify to increase production (using stamped parts) and using simplified rear sight thus becoming the 03A3. O3A3 receivers are different from 03s in that they have a dovetail mount to accept the rear sight on top of the receiver behind the bolt. No one is doing modifications. M1903 and 03A3 rifles are marked as such. As far as 1903A1s,. They were the best of the bunch,. Had one thiry 30 year go and sold it.... regret it to this day!
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#10 only7rounds2

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Posted March 06 2021 - 10:51 PM

Having owned quite a few Springfield 03s, I'll clear up a few things. Remington did get a contract to produce M1903s early in the war. They got the tooling from Springfield and Rock island. Shortly after the design was modify to increase production (using stamped parts) and using simplified rear sight thus becoming the 03A3. O3A3 receivers are different from 03s in that they have a dovetail mount to accept the rear sight on top of the receiver behind the bolt. No one is doing modifications. M1903 and 03A3 rifles are marked as such. As far as 1903A1s,. They were the best of the bunch,. Had one thiry 30 year go and sold it.... regret it to this day!

Do you collect them? I have some tings you might be interested in.


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#11 Tioga RT

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Posted March 11 2021 - 09:04 AM

My thoughts on the rifle I am looking at....being early / Remington WW2 / production..might explain the the older leaf sight still being on the receiver.While I can't confirm this..its possible all the changes( rear sight, back to a straight stock, 2 groove rifling, etc...) all didn't happen right at the moment production started....just a thought. Thanks for the replies.






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