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Trump administration raids Polymer80


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#21 Ancap

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Posted December 16 2020 - 06:28 PM

Your "defend the Constitution" is a pretty broad statement. Do I expect them to defend the Constitution based on my understanding of the Constitution in every circumstance? I think to do so would be a little naive. While we on the forum talk about 2nd Amendment rights my guess is there are 101 different options on just what those rights entail. Even among the so-called conservative members of the court you get a split of opinions.

As there been judicial creep over the last two hundred years? Absolutely, just as there has been moral/social creep in our society as a whole. Every generation has to keep fighting to prevent, slow it down and if possible reverse it.

So I understand your compliant but I think the phrase "defend the Constitution" is too broad a statement and ultimately non-productive. These issues have to be attacked issue by issue (targeted) versus a shotgun approach that gets us nowhere.

What are you talking about. It’s the supreme courts only job .plus the constitution is not hard to understand and there are plenty of documents from the constitutional convention, federalist papers, and anti federalist papers to clarify....not to mention the author of the constitution comments



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#22 Ancap

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Posted December 17 2020 - 04:11 PM

Trump administration is now going to ban arm braces shortly

 

Trump ignoring these actions, even when the gun lobby points it out to him. Means he consents to it



#23 2edgesword

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Posted December 17 2020 - 05:02 PM

What are you talking about. It’s the supreme courts only job .plus the constitution is not hard to understand and there are plenty of documents from the constitutional convention, federalist papers, and anti federalist papers to clarify....not to mention the author of the constitution comments

Really...

Please break this down into a single, easy to understand paragraph...

"The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same term, be elected, as follows:

Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors, equal to the whole number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or person holding an office of trust or profit under the United States, shall be appointed an elector.

The electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for two persons, of whom one at least shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves. And they shall make a list of all the persons voted for, and of the number of votes for each; which list they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates, and the votes shall then be counted. The person having the greatest number of votes shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such majority, and have an equal number of votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately choose by ballot one of them for President; and if no person have a majority, then from the five highest on the list the said House shall in like manner choose the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by States, the representation from each state having one vote; A quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. In every case, after the choice of the President, the person having the greatest number of votes of the electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal votes, the Senate shall choose from them by ballot the Vice President.

The Congress may determine the time of choosing the electors, and the day on which they shall give their votes; which day shall be the same throughout the United States.

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.

In case of the removal of the President from office, or of his death, resignation, or inability to discharge the powers and duties of the said office, the same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by law provide for the case of removal, death, resignation or inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what officer shall then act as President, and such officer shall act accordingly, until the disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.

The President shall, at stated times, receive for his services, a compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that period any other emolument from the United States, or any of them.

Before he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."


I'll wait but I won't hold my breath.



#24 2edgesword

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Posted December 17 2020 - 05:05 PM

Trump administration is now going to ban arm braces shortly
 
Trump ignoring these actions, even when the gun lobby points it out to him. Means he consents to it


The Trump administration is going to do that. I guess it was the Trump administration that appointed Mueller to investigate Russian collusion. And it was the Trump administration that leaked details of the Steele dossier. And it's the Trump administration that told Durham "hold off on that report until after the election".

#25 mvphilly

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Posted December 17 2020 - 07:30 PM

Ane gave no bone to gunowners, even when the republicans had control 

 

we didn’t give Obama a pass, trump shouldn’t get one either

We had control yes but look at the RINOS who were in control at the time? No better than the libs on the other side. Same coin different sides. I finally realized thanks to Trump that it doesnt matter and never has and never will. They are all in the club and we and he arent.period. They throw us a crumb here and there but that is it. There is nothing they will ever be able to do to us so they just play us and go back to their club. Just imagine if Hilary won 2 terms that there would have been a Clinton or Bush in the WH for 28 years since 1988. Just 8 years of obumble would have broken the monopoly.Then imagine if Jeb ran in 2024 and made 8 years.That would be 36 years aClinton or Bush in the Wh. They have the club. I see only one way to disband the club and its not at the polls.



#26 Ancap

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Posted December 18 2020 - 07:46 AM

Really...

Please break this down into a single, easy to understand paragraph...

"The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same term, be elected, as follows:

Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors, equal to the whole number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or person holding an office of trust or profit under the United States, shall be appointed an elector.

The electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for two persons, of whom one at least shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves. And they shall make a list of all the persons voted for, and of the number of votes for each; which list they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates, and the votes shall then be counted. The person having the greatest number of votes shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such majority, and have an equal number of votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately choose by ballot one of them for President; and if no person have a majority, then from the five highest on the list the said House shall in like manner choose the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by States, the representation from each state having one vote; A quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. In every case, after the choice of the President, the person having the greatest number of votes of the electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal votes, the Senate shall choose from them by ballot the Vice President.

The Congress may determine the time of choosing the electors, and the day on which they shall give their votes; which day shall be the same throughout the United States.

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.

In case of the removal of the President from office, or of his death, resignation, or inability to discharge the powers and duties of the said office, the same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by law provide for the case of removal, death, resignation or inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what officer shall then act as President, and such officer shall act accordingly, until the disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.

The President shall, at stated times, receive for his services, a compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that period any other emolument from the United States, or any of them.

Before he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."


I'll wait but I won't hold my breath.

I think it speaks for itself, plus article one section 8 makes it very simple what powers the federal government has. 
 

You don’t even need to be a lawyer to decide what laws are constitutional or not



#27 Ancap

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Posted December 18 2020 - 07:49 AM

The Trump administration is going to do that. I guess it was the Trump administration that appointed Mueller to investigate Russian collusion. And it was the Trump administration that leaked details of the Steele dossier. And it's the Trump administration that told Durham "hold off on that report until after the election".

Making excuses for trump again

 

trump can easily fix the ATF situation and the gun lobby made him fully aware of it



#28 Ancap

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Posted December 18 2020 - 07:52 AM

We had control yes but look at the RINOS who were in control at the time? No better than the libs on the other side. Same coin different sides. I finally realized thanks to Trump that it doesnt matter and never has and never will. They are all in the club and we and he arent.period. They throw us a crumb here and there but that is it. There is nothing they will ever be able to do to us so they just play us and go back to their club. Just imagine if Hilary won 2 terms that there would have been a Clinton or Bush in the WH for 28 years since 1988. Just 8 years of obumble would have broken the monopoly.Then imagine if Jeb ran in 2024 and made 8 years.That would be 36 years aClinton or Bush in the Wh. They have the club. I see only one way to disband the club and its not at the polls.

i agree with your first half hence hy gunowners should treat republicans like democrats 

 

however we can’t accurately speculate on the second half. But we do have history on trump vs Biden. The evidence is clear that Ztrump infringed on the 2A more then Obama did

 

plus after seeing Trumps reckless spending and expansion in government. Trump and Obama are more similar then dissimilar 



#29 mvphilly

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Posted December 18 2020 - 06:51 PM

i agree with your first half hence hy gunowners should treat republicans like democrats 

 

however we can’t accurately speculate on the second half. But we do have history on trump vs Biden. The evidence is clear that Ztrump infringed on the 2A more then Obama did

 

plus after seeing Trumps reckless spending and expansion in government. Trump and Obama are more similar then dissimilar 

Yes but only because of the "RINO coaching" Trump had like Paul Ryan and this disgrace McConnell.



#30 NRATC53

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Posted December 18 2020 - 07:37 PM

Seems the ATF colluded with the incoming Biden Administration before the raid. The swamp is wide and deep.The raid goes against their earlier stated position on the Polymer 80..

 

On December 10, agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives raided Dayton, Nev.-based Polymer80. The company manufactures unfinished, often referred to as 80 percent, receivers and frames. There are also reports of BATFE confronting Polymer80 customers and confiscating certain unfinished frame kits. The move marks the first direct assault on unfinished frames and receivers since the news broke in November of collusion between BATFE and Biden's transition team to target these items by executive fiat.

On November 10, gun rights activist John Crump published a piece for Ammoland.com with details of a leaked BATFE conference call in which BATFE Acting Director Regina Lombardo and Associate Deputy Director Marvin Richardson participated. According to the article, “Acting Director Regina Lombardo told those in attendance that the anti-gun Biden transition team has reached out to the ATF to get the agency’s ‘top priorities.’” The item went on to note that “Lombardo told those on the call that her priorities would be pistol braces and 80% lower receivers.”

It appears BATFE couldn't wait for inauguration day to commence their attack on the firearms industry and gun owners.

Federal statute (18 U.S.C. 921(a)(3)) defines "firearm" in part as, "(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; ( the frame or receiver of any such weapon​." In the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), “firearm frame or receiver” is further defined as “That part of a firearm which provides housing for the hammer, bolt or breechblock, and firing mechanism, and which is usually threaded at its forward portion to receive the barrel.”​

A Federal Firearms License (FFL) is required to commercially manufacture or deal in firearms. Further, licensees must comply with background check and record-keeping requirements when selling firearms.

Most of what Polymer80 manufactures and sells are not "firearms." The company specializes in unfinished frames or receivers. The items require significant expertise, time, effort, and specialized tools in order to be used to assemble a working firearm, therefore they do not meet the definition of a "firearm" under federal statute or regulation. As such, these unfinished frames and receivers are not subject to the same federal gun controls attendant to "firearms."

BATFE has acknowledged this fact. 

Polymer80 repeatedly sent its products to BATFE's Firearms Technology Industry Services Branch (FTISB) to ensure their products complied with federal law. On their website, Polymer80 hosts BATFE determination letters for several of its products. 

In a 2017 determination letter for one of Polymer80's most popular products, the PF940C unfinished pistol frame, BATFE explained, "As a result of this FTISB evaluation, the submitted 'PF940C' is not sufficiently complete to be classified as the frame or receiver of a firearm and thus is not a 'firearm' as defined in the [Gun Control Act]."

Other Polymer80-BATFE determination letters concerning various unfinished frames or receivers date back to the Obama administration in 2015.

According to reports, BATFE raided Polymer80 due to its sale of what the company calls its "Buy Build Shoot" kits. These kits contain a Polymer80 unfinished pistol frame along with other parts necessary to complete a pistol. Despite its previous acknowledgement that the unfinished frame is not a firearm, BATFE has taken the position that when the unfinished frame is packaged with other non-firearm parts the entire package becomes a "firearm" for the purposes of federal law.

Of further concern is that BATFE seized customer records from Polymer80 during the raid and that the agency had previously obtained some customer records from third-party shipping service Stamps.com. Since the raid, there have been reports of BATFE confronting Polymer80 customers about their purchases.

Gun rights supporters should interpret BATFE's increasingly dubious interpretations of federal law and their resulting enforcement actions as indicative of the peril gun owners will face under a Biden administration and prepare for political action accordingly. NRA is continuing to monitor this developing situation and is taking action to confront this BATFE abuse.


Edited by NRATC53, December 18 2020 - 07:39 PM.


#31 Ancap

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Posted December 18 2020 - 10:31 PM

ATF raided a silencer company too and going after purchasers



#32 marcha1

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Posted December 19 2020 - 04:04 AM

https://youtu.be/Sujvze2uBk8

 

old, but still applicable.



#33 NRATC53

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Posted December 19 2020 - 09:31 AM

ATF raided a silencer company too and going after purchasers

Were they selling Silencers (suppressors) or Vapor Traps/ Fuel filters?



#34 NRATC53

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Posted December 19 2020 - 09:32 AM

How it SHOULD work:

 

 

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#35 Ancap

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Posted December 19 2020 - 02:04 PM

Were they selling Silencers (suppressors) or Vapor Traps/ Fuel filters?

Legitimate build your own silencers that the ATF has given tax stamps for



#36 NRATC53

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Posted December 20 2020 - 10:37 AM

Legitimate build your own silencers that the ATF has given tax stamps for

Same as the tech branch OK'd the Polymer80 kits, and then they didn't. Collusion with the incoming Biden folks, as I showed






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