Clerk charged in death of shoplifter at Melville 7-Eleven, cops say - NY Specific Discussions - Long Island Firearms

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Clerk charged in death of shoplifter at Melville 7-Eleven, cops say


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11 replies to this topic

#1 cprstn54

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Posted October 06 2020 - 10:34 AM

https://www.newsday....ille-1.49945010

 

Box cutter used against shoplifter who resisted citizen's arrest.

 

Deadly force appears authorized against a shoplifter only if there is a reasonable fear of serious personal injury during the arrest.

 

Only reasonable force, but not deadly force, authorized for citizen's arrest in NY.

 

Looks like a baton/bat/taser would have been a better choice.

 

If however, the shoplifter had taken the goods under threat of violence (robbery), deadly force would have been authorized.

 

 

 

 



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#2 ProGodProGunProLife

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Posted October 06 2020 - 10:55 AM

https://www.newsday....ille-1.49945010

 

Box cutter used against shoplifter who resisted citizen's arrest.

 

Deadly force appears authorized against a shoplifter only if there is a reasonable fear of serious personal injury during the arrest.

 

Only reasonable force, but not deadly force, authorized for citizen's arrest in NY.

 

Looks like a baton/bat/taser would have been a better choice.

 

If however, the shoplifter had taken the goods under threat of violence (robbery), deadly force would have been authorized.

 

 

I was following the case right after it happened and I tend to agree that the clerk is probably screwed.   This is a good example of how, in a self defense case, other than saying you were attacked and pointing out any witnesses or evidence, you should speak to a lawyer before sharing you story with the police.

 

If he had spoken to a lawyer, he probably would have been advised to emphasize the fear for his life that he felt from the thief during their struggle, as opposed to his desire to get the stolen merchandise returned.  

 

Maybe, his lawyer can still sell that his life was in danger.  Or perhaps, if he had taken some of the merchandise back, and then the thief fought him to steal it again, his lawyer could argue that it became a robbery.   

 

While there was nothing illegal about chasing down the thief, the clerk would have been wiser to just call the police, which I am almost certain is 7-11 policy.  Even if he had retrieved the stolen goods, and apprehended the thief without injuring him, the clerk probably still would have been fired.  It is a shame that he will probably spend several years in prison for trying to stop someone from stealing from his employer. 

 

I believe both the dead thief and the clerk are black, which a least takes the racial politics out of it.   



#3 Ted_Feasel

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Posted October 06 2020 - 12:02 PM

I personally don't feel things are worth taking a life over, things can be replaced but I feel very strongly if your life has been threatened then the gloves come off and you get what you get. 20 feet is the average distance, if someone is within 20 feet and intends to harm you, the average person cannot unholster, charge and aim before that 20 feet is closed and you are actually under physical assult. Even if you carry your edc in stage 3 readiness you are likely not to have enough time to react (again this is the average john/Jane doe)



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#4 Shotgun682

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Posted October 06 2020 - 03:20 PM

It still has to go to a Grand Jury..Do you really know what the clerks statements are?
Do you have inside info? If not you are just speculating.

#5 ProGodProGunProLife

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Posted October 06 2020 - 04:22 PM

It still has to go to a Grand Jury..Do you really know what the clerks statements are?
Do you have inside info? If not you are just speculating.

 

I am going by what the police told the media.  Hopefully, the clerk told a story more favorable to him, that the way the police described it to the media.



#6 Gaijin

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Posted October 06 2020 - 06:46 PM

Once the Bad guy left the store - it ends.....

 

 Call the cops  make a report. then wake your boss and tell him  the story.....  YOU  go back to  putting out the donuts for decent people  who can afford them.


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#7 2edgesword

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Posted October 06 2020 - 09:51 PM

This comes down to two issues. Should he have chased the guy and once the physical confrontation started did something happen during that altercation that justified the use of deadly force?

The first question has two components, what was legal and what was wise. I think most will feel chasing him may have been legal but unwise. Without more information it's impossible to judge if the clerk had a reasonable belief deadly physical force was being used or about to be used against him.
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#8 Gaijin

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Posted October 06 2020 - 10:07 PM

  I hope he has a good Lawyer. 

The Perp's  Fam  gonna at him with all of the photos  of when he was a "good kid" or this(my personal Fav)  "he was just  changing his or  life around"

I just dont think it was worth it...  I know this 7-11.  It's got more Cameras/ than a London  street Corner.  Show the video to the Cops  and be done with it.  I don't think this was a DPF situation-  unless you make it one.



#9 the blur

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Posted October 06 2020 - 11:55 PM

What if your sucker punched on the street by BLM ?    Can you shoot back in defense ?



#10 boosti

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Posted October 07 2020 - 08:37 AM

One of the roll play scenarios in the Police Academy was responding to call of an active fight at an Italian restaurant. The customer was hit by a baseball bat by the store employee. Interviewing the employees, it was an irate customer who was being difficult with the server who didn’t want to pay his check. The server became very nervous and went inside the kitchen telling the other employees she has a problem with this guy not wanting to pay.
The employee was under the impression he was getting ripped off by this customer and thought he could persuade him to pay the bill by coming out with a baseball bat. The customer was still being loud and got hit in the knee.
These types of calls happen where an employee feels they can use force. The charge was menacing and Assault for the employee in this roll play.

#11 2edgesword

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Posted October 07 2020 - 09:34 AM

What if your sucker punched on the street by BLM ? Can you shoot back in defense ?


It depends? Can a punch lead to death or serious bodily injury? If the punch is thrown by a 6'4" guy against a 5'2" woman I don't think it takes a lot of persuading that the punch constitutes the application of deadly force. The more the disparity in size and strength decreases the more difficult it becomes to make that argument.

Edited by 2edgesword, October 07 2020 - 09:34 AM.


#12 ProGodProGunProLife

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Posted October 07 2020 - 10:26 AM

This comes down to two issues. Should he have chased the guy and once the physical confrontation started did something happen during that altercation that justified the use of deadly force?

The first question has two components, what was legal and what was wise. I think most will feel chasing him may have been legal but unwise. Without more information it's impossible to judge if the clerk had a reasonable belief deadly physical force was being used or about to be used against him.

 

I agree completely.  Chasing the thief was legal, but probably unwise.  He was legally allowed to use reasonable, non deadly force to stop the theft.   The question is whether the thief was using deadly force or the clerk reasonably believed he was about to.  

 

So, far there doesn't seem to be any evidence that the thief was using deadly force, but we haven't fully heard the clerk's side of the story or seen all the evidence. 






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