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Leading Christian Theologian defies government tyranny


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#1 iGreg

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Posted July 28 2020 - 02:22 PM

:usflag

 

John MacArthur and his congregation absolutely defies and lays down the gauntlet to Caesar.

 


Edited by iGreg, July 28 2020 - 02:35 PM.


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#2 mvphilly

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Posted July 28 2020 - 02:31 PM

How do those californians keep voting for these assholes?Newsome, Pelosi,Schiff, Waters, Feinstein,Harris,? It is unreal.


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#3 2edgesword

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Posted July 28 2020 - 07:47 PM

I respect Pastor MacArthur and understand his perspective but I think those that are in the high risk population need to continue to be vigilant regarding this virus. In addition I think those that are not in the high risk population need to understand this virus in not the flu and it presents itself in ways that can cause serious damage short of death. I also think you can't separate the lower then predicted number of deaths from the actions that were taken regarding distancing, wearing mask and personal hygiene. Those measures did slow the spread and limited the number of deaths.

 

So now we are 5 months into this pandemic. The church I attend start having indoor services again three weeks ago. Capacity is limited to about 25% of what would be full capacity. The service are kept shorter and in between services cleaning is done to prepare for the next service. Everyone except the person preaching or leading the song serve wears a mask. We are not at the point where we would feel comfortable conducting services in the manner shown in this video. While the mortality rate is declining (in part due to more testing and those in the high risk groups maintaining good practices) it's still higher than the flu, relatively high for those over 60 and/or with other health issues. I'm not an alarmist but I'm also not as relaxed about the situation as Pastor MacArthur appears to be. We are all personally responsible for our actions but if his church has a rash of cases in the next few weeks that result in serious illness or individuals dying I think he bears some of the responsibility in giving people what I believe is a false sense of security.



#4 Charlie-NY

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Posted July 28 2020 - 08:18 PM

^^^^^^^ I second this ^^^^^^^^



#5 iGreg

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Posted July 29 2020 - 01:49 AM

... I also think you can't separate the lower then predicted number of deaths from the actions that were taken regarding distancing, wearing mask and personal hygiene. Those measures did slow the spread and limited the number of deaths....

 

 

Wait a minute. All the testing going on has risen the number of people all over the country who have the virus in them and that is mathematically lowering the death rate far below what the political doctors in the swamp were predicting.  

 

What we see is a political establishment that has sent our economy into a tailspin for no good reason. It is patently obvious that Commie Democrat states are now deliberately sabotaging their own economies and has zero to do with the health of the people. 

 

Is this virus a serious medical issue, like many flus and pneumonias, of course. But it makes zero sense to shut down an economy and destroy our fundamental liberties to supposedly help the health of the people. 

 

We are approaching 6 months of this madness. Coupled with the Commie Democrat uprisings in many cities, at some point the center will NOT hold.


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#6 trapshooterbob

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Posted July 30 2020 - 09:41 AM

You cannot deny there is a political part to all of this. The Democrats are certainly trying to make sure Trump is not re-elected and, yes, I believe they'll wreck the economy to do it. Think of it. It will make it that much easier for them to take over the economy and launch us into socialism.

 

How can anyone justify shutting down small mom and pop stores while allowing giants like Walmart, Target and Costco to open? How can anyone look you in the eye and say it's easier for these stores to clean and keep people safe than a small store that can more easily control the numbers of patrons and clean a smaller area and keep it sanitized?

 

In January Anthony Fauci, the expert, said the virus posed no threat to the American public. I saw the video. He said it! Cuomo, DiBlasio, Pelosi were telling people to go out and support the local economy! Then they called the travel bans Trump did racist.

 

It's about the election, pure and simple.

 

The sad part is that this shows now in our lifetime how easily the American society will comply to the overreach of the government. Your rights were destroyed and no one said a peep. How, in this great country, can any government tell you that you have to stay in your house? Pardon my French, but screw you! This is America. I'm not going to hold up in my house.

 

There is also a scientific/medical part to this. But even there disagreements abound! Some come out for hydrochloroquine and some say no. Some say masks yes, some say they don't really help.

 

And with no news, really, it's hard to trust any source of information.

 

We're basically on our own.

 

 

 



What we see is a political establishment that has sent our economy into a tailspin for no good reason. It is patently obvious that Commie Democrat states are now deliberately sabotaging their own economies and has zero to do with the health of the people. 

 

Is this virus a serious medical issue, like many flus and pneumonias, of course. But it makes zero sense to shut down an economy and destroy our fundamental liberties to supposedly help the health of the people. 

 

We are approaching 6 months of this madness. Coupled with the Commie Democrat uprisings in many cities, at some point the center will NOT hold.


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#7 trapshooterbob

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Posted July 30 2020 - 09:56 AM

I respect Pastor MacArthur and understand his perspective but I think those that are in the high risk population need to continue to be vigilant regarding this virus. In addition I think those that are not in the high risk population need to understand this virus in not the flu and it presents itself in ways that can cause serious damage short of death. I also think you can't separate the lower then predicted number of deaths from the actions that were taken regarding distancing, wearing mask and personal hygiene. Those measures did slow the spread and limited the number of deaths.

 

So now we are 5 months into this pandemic. The church I attend start having indoor services again three weeks ago. Capacity is limited to about 25% of what would be full capacity. The service are kept shorter and in between services cleaning is done to prepare for the next service. Everyone except the person preaching or leading the song serve wears a mask. We are not at the point where we would feel comfortable conducting services in the manner shown in this video. While the mortality rate is declining (in part due to more testing and those in the high risk groups maintaining good practices) it's still higher than the flu, relatively high for those over 60 and/or with other health issues. I'm not an alarmist but I'm also not as relaxed about the situation as Pastor MacArthur appears to be. We are all personally responsible for our actions but if his church has a rash of cases in the next few weeks that result in serious illness or individuals dying I think he bears some of the responsibility in giving people what I believe is a false sense of security.

John MacArthur is a well-respected Pastor and for good reason. He's listening to God and I believe God will honor that.

 

We Christians trust God. If we're going to gather to worship Him, we believe He'll protect us.

 

Our church, Nesconset Christian Church (www.nesconsetchristianchurch.com), is having both in-person and online services. We are holding to the rule that says 33% capacity is OK. We have to reserve spots, so they know more people than are allowed won't show up. Masks are required when moving around the church (which has most areas closed off to people) and singing. This is the rule that came down from Albany. If you are sitting and not singing, you may remove your mask. The worship team distances on stage and sings without masks. Our pastors preach with no mask as they are distanced from the congregation. Those who do no feel comfortable meeting, are encouraged to watch online. We are also holding our weekly small groups online and in person (although we've stopped for August).

 

To date I think we've had two of our church family test positive. They were from different age groups and families. Their families were not affected by them. The younger of the two had a more severe case than the older one.

 

I am in the vulnerable age group. I wear my mask because I can't go anywhere without it, but, being of the age, I would probably wear it most places I go anyway. I wash my hands more often and I keep hand sanitizer in my car. I won't, however, stay in my house. I go to parks, beaches. I go out. I will not hold up in my house.

 

Also, I have been working from home this whole time. I work in an "essential" industry and we do most of our business though email and phone anyway. Also, my wife teaches special ed kids online. Please, don't get me started on that one.


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#8 2edgesword

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Posted August 06 2020 - 02:39 PM

John MacArthur is a well-respected Pastor and for good reason. He's listening to God and I believe God will honor that.
 
We Christians trust God. If we're going to gather to worship Him, we believe He'll protect us.


God calls us to exercise faith and WISDOM. I know good Christian men and women, individuals of faith, that have died from this virus. To defy wisdom is to tempt God.

#9 2edgesword

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Posted August 06 2020 - 03:10 PM

Wait a minute. All the testing going on has risen the number of people all over the country who have the virus in them and that is mathematically lowering the death rate far below what the political doctors in the swamp were predicting.  
 
What we see is a political establishment that has sent our economy into a tailspin for no good reason. It is patently obvious that Commie Democrat states are now deliberately sabotaging their own economies and has zero to do with the health of the people. 
 
Is this virus a serious medical issue, like many flus and pneumonias, of course. But it makes zero sense to shut down an economy and destroy our fundamental liberties to supposedly help the health of the people. 
 
We are approaching 6 months of this madness. Coupled with the Commie Democrat uprisings in many cities, at some point the center will NOT hold.


I don't doubt for a minute that politics plays a part in the various recommendations about who, what, where, when and how states should open up. That said five months into this pandemic we know a lot more about what measures are effective in dealing with this virus. The number of cases in nursing homes has dropped because we know you have to keep people infected with the virus away from those at high risk. Commonsense should tell you that mask that minimize the release and inhalation of moisture drops containing the virus will limit the spread. While there are reports that atomized droplets can remain suspended in the air for long periods of time those atomized drops contain less droplets and may not be as infectious.

If everyone that test positive is considered a "new case" then an increase in testing will drive down the mortality rate. When you see figures like 29465 new cases and 2438 deaths (U.S. April 19th) and 63265 new cases and 1449 deaths (U.S. July 29) that tells me there is something more than just an increase in testing driving down the mortality rate. It could be better treatment and/or the people being infected are not the high risk folks that are still taking precautions to avoid the virus.

#10 iGreg

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Posted August 11 2020 - 03:31 AM

God calls us to exercise faith and WISDOM. I know good Christian men and women, individuals of faith, that have died from this virus. To defy wisdom is to tempt God.

If indeed those people are "good Christian men and women," they knew that there are things more important than physical death, faith for one. Christianity teaches eternal life for the believer AFTER death in this world.


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#11 iGreg

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Posted August 11 2020 - 03:32 AM

John MacArthur and his congregation remains in defiance of Caesar.

 


Edited by iGreg, August 11 2020 - 03:33 AM.

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#12 2edgesword

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Posted August 11 2020 - 08:41 PM

If indeed those people are "good Christian men and women," they knew that there are things more important than physical death, faith for one. Christianity teaches eternal life for the believer AFTER death in this world.

 

I don't disagree with the statement "there are things more important than physical death" and exercising faith is sometimes doing what doesn't seem rational or logical BUT those instances in my opinion are few and far between. The Lord says "come let us reason together". Do I believe Jesus and Peter walked on water. Absolutely, but the physics behind what made that possible is beyond the physics I understand and so the only time I'd make the attempt is if I very clearly heard from the Lord, as Peter did, the invitation to join him on the water.

 

We know a lot about this virus. We understand how it is transmitted and what it can do to some individuals. I've seen the devastation first hand (my daughter) and second hand through friends and relatives (severe illness and death). While church attendance has been the cornerstone of my life for most of my life unless the Lord gives me some very specific direction regarding church attendance I have to use the knowledge and wisdom based on that knowledge to guide my actions. This is some each individual Christian has to deal with on an individual basis. I have no words of condemnation of Pastor MacArthur. If the Lord has lead him in that direction (open the church without following any guidelines regarding this pandemic) he and those that follow his lead will ultimately have to deal with the consequences. If massive of people in the congregation end up getting sick and dying he will have to do some searching and seeking regarding why he made the decision. I'm hoping for the best.



#13 iGreg

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Posted August 13 2020 - 04:23 PM

 

 

John MacArthur’s Church Sues California After Being Threatened With Fines And Jail For Indoor Worship Services

https://www.dailywir...-fines-and-jail

 

As the saying goes, "the best defense is a good offense."

 


Edited by iGreg, August 13 2020 - 04:44 PM.


#14 iGreg

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Posted August 15 2020 - 03:36 PM

So far so good. Satanic Commie California order against this church holding indoor services is lifted pending full hearing. The church agreed to temporarily have mask and distancing requirements, until their challenge to those restrictions as well are heard by the court. 

 

First skirmish victory goes to John MacArthur and his church,. We shall see who wins the over-all battle.

 

Also, this battle is a national story, so the American people are weighing in. When the Commie anti-Christ Dems pick on Christianity they are in for a long-term fight. They have made MacArthur and his congregation Christian heroes.

 

 


Edited by iGreg, August 15 2020 - 03:48 PM.

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#15 iGreg

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Posted August 16 2020 - 03:45 PM

Well well well, turns out that this church is still NOT wearing masks and social distancing, because the city was not happy with the court order allowing the church to remain open while the case was being litigated in court. The city went to a higher court to have this order allowing the church to remain open during litigation over-turned, even though the church was willing to comply with masks and distancing during the litigation.

 

The church counterattacked today with dropping their agreement for masks and distancing.

 

MacArthur and his church could teach the Republican party and other churches how to fight the Commie Democrat Anti-christs.

 

 


Edited by iGreg, August 16 2020 - 04:13 PM.

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#16 iGreg

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Posted August 21 2020 - 01:44 AM

LA County wanted John MacArthur and his church found in contempt of court. The court refused.

 

 


Edited by iGreg, August 21 2020 - 01:52 AM.

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#17 mvphilly

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Posted August 22 2020 - 07:36 AM

All the restaruants and other businesses here and in nYC should do the same and all reopen. FUAC and Comrade Diblasio are full themselves and the power they have after 4 months of this crap. One day someone will give us the real death rate of this virus and then the swhtf. By"real" I mean 100% HEALTHY people who died as direct result of this virus and only this virus.Not older seinors killed in nursing homes. Not people with exisiting lung or other health issues. Not people who got it and got hit by a car on the way to the doctor and cause of death was ruled Corona. I am saying 100% Covid from onset to death. 


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#18 2edgesword

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Posted August 22 2020 - 03:47 PM

All the restaruants and other businesses here and in nYC should do the same and all reopen. FUAC and Comrade Diblasio are full themselves and the power they have after 4 months of this crap. One day someone will give us the real death rate of this virus and then the swhtf. By"real" I mean 100% HEALTHY people who died as direct result of this virus and only this virus.Not older seinors killed in nursing homes. Not people with exisiting lung or other health issues. Not people who got it and got hit by a car on the way to the doctor and cause of death was ruled Corona. I am saying 100% Covid from onset to death.


I don't think the mortality rate can be that narrowly defined and I think doing so would foster a lax attitude toward this virus. That doesn't mean I think someone that dies in a head on car accident that happens to test positive for Covid should be considered a Covid death but limiting deaths to only deaths caused by Covid to only those cases where Covid is the only factor I don't believe would be consistent with how deaths from other causes are registered (someone that knows better correct me if I'm wrong). If Covid causes pneumonia which reduces oxygen levels which triggers cardiac arrest in a patient that had a history of heart disease is the cause of death Covid or cardiac arrest? This person was living with the heart issues but the Covid infection added further stress the body could no longer handle.

#19 iGreg

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Posted August 31 2020 - 01:00 PM



#20 2edgesword

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Posted August 31 2020 - 02:43 PM

https://youtu.be/nI4X7svEhlw


What I get from this statement isn't that this pandemic isn't real but highlighting the fact the comorbidities (which are plentiful among certain segments of the population) play a significant part in how deadly a Covid infection can be. The other issue is how sick this virus can make some people who have no comorbidities. This pronouncement by the CDC may change how deaths are strictly classified but the fact that a Covid infection changes a persons status from alive living with health issues to dead isn't something to be ignored. The critical issue has always been understanding the risk and how far we should go in mitigating that risk with respect to the cost of mitigation.




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