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Suffolk County permit without refrences?

ccw application suffolk county no refrences

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21 replies to this topic

#1 pmuller777

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Posted January 27 2019 - 04:21 PM

I am a 66 year old retired pastor and I moved back to New York 18 months ago to take care of my 89 year old mom.  I had a New York business pistol license since 1980 and had it till I  moved away in 1991.  Since moving I have been licensed in 5 different states.  Now that I am back in NY (Suffolk County) I want to get a pistol permit.  The process requires that I have four references from the same county that I live in.  I do not have friends here in NY.  I have considered applying for my permit without meeting the reference requirement, at which time I will most certainly be rejected.  What would be the process and time frame to contest the state denning  me a permit. I was thinking about applying for the permit knowing that I will be denied, then, going through the appeal process to see if they might make an exception.  I am aware that the Heller case ruled that a person may have a handgun in their home however the conclusion of many courts is that reasonable restrictions are allowed to be placed on a person, such as having to obtain a permit to have a gun at your home.  I was thinking that after being denied I can start a suit against New York State but I am sure that it would be a long process and a great deal of money.  Any suggestions?



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#2 boosti

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Posted January 27 2019 - 04:41 PM

I am a 66 year old retired pastor and I moved back to New York 18 months ago to take care of my 89 year old mom.  I had a New York business pistol license since 1980 and had it till I  moved away in 1991.  Since moving I have been licensed in 5 different states.  Now that I am back in NY (Suffolk County) I want to get a pistol permit.  The process requires that I have four references from the same county that I live in.  I do not have friends here in NY.  I have considered applying for my permit without meeting the reference requirement, at which time I will most certainly be rejected.  What would be the process and time frame to contest the state denning  me a permit. I was thinking about applying for the permit knowing that I will be denied, then, going through the appeal process to see if they might make an exception.  I am aware that the Heller case ruled that a person may have a handgun in their home however the conclusion of many courts is that reasonable restrictions are allowed to be placed on a person, such as having to obtain a permit to have a gun at your home.  I was thinking that after being denied I can start a suit against New York State but I am sure that it would be a long process and a great deal of money.  Any suggestions?

You need to show proof of living in the county for over One year. Credit Card, Bank Statement and utility bills with an address in the County. I know my old neighbor struggled for about two years when he moved upstate. He joined the gun club and was shooting every weekend and met people. He was told it was necessary for the reference to know the applicant for a minimum of one year.
What ever you do, don't tell them you're intentions of a lawsuit if you submit an application without the references.
Good Luck.
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#3 grifhunter

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Posted January 27 2019 - 05:12 PM

The reference criteria is unconstitutional. And they know it.  Further, references are not a requirement set forth in the application process specified in NY Penal Law 400. 

 

I am not your lawyer, but if it were me, I would apply using out of state references, or relatives.   If the police tell you they will deny you based on those "non-compliant" references, go to a lawyer and have him write a letter threatening a civil rights lawsuit in federal court if you are denied on that irrational basis.  You will be issued.  

 

Meanwhile, join a gun club or shooting league (trap, skeet, smallbore rifle, air gun etc) and within one weekend you'll have your references.   


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#4 Parashooter

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Posted January 27 2019 - 05:42 PM

The referance requirement as posted has been ruled unconstitutional in MD or DE - if you want to take on the fight, you will win in the end.... 


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#5 boosti

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Posted January 27 2019 - 06:18 PM

The referance requirement as posted has been ruled unconstitutional in MD or DE - if you want to take on the fight, you will win in the end....

The County will fight it. This is a good law suit. Pennsylvania required two references for a LTC. I hope the OP luck and encourage him to apply.

#6 grifhunter

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Posted January 27 2019 - 06:38 PM

I am a 66 year old retired pastor and I moved back to New York 18 months ago to take care of my 89 year old mom.  I had a New York business pistol license since 1980 and had it till I  moved away in 1991.  Since moving I have been licensed in 5 different states.  Now that I am back in NY (Suffolk County) I want to get a pistol permit.  The process requires that I have four references from the same county that I live in.  I do not have friends here in NY.  I have considered applying for my permit without meeting the reference requirement, at which time I will most certainly be rejected.  What would be the process and time frame to contest the state denning  me a permit. I was thinking about applying for the permit knowing that I will be denied, then, going through the appeal process to see if they might make an exception.  I am aware that the Heller case ruled that a person may have a handgun in their home however the conclusion of many courts is that reasonable restrictions are allowed to be placed on a person, such as having to obtain a permit to have a gun at your home.  I was thinking that after being denied I can start a suit against New York State but I am sure that it would be a long process and a great deal of money.  Any suggestions?

 

Just an aside.  If you are interested in going through with a legal challenge, you would make an ideal plaintiff.  Your background, and reason for returning to the county would set you up as an attractive point person for a demonstration of the lack of logic and unconstitutionality of the police created referencing criteria. 

You should contact the NRA Civil Rights Legal Defense fundhttps://www.nradefensefund.org/  , or the NYSRPA or even one of the lawyers who are currently suing Nassau county in federal court over police licensing abuses. 


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#7 kouzman

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Posted January 27 2019 - 07:25 PM

good thread I will follow it. This is actually a concern that I had when I bought my second home in Suffolk county. But stupid me, even after 3 years of ownership I still haven't applied!



#8 boosti

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Posted January 27 2019 - 07:38 PM

good thread I will follow it. This is actually a concern that I had when I bought my second home in Suffolk county. But stupid me, even after 3 years of ownership I still haven't applied!

You may apply in the county you own a second home as a Part Time Resident. They can not deny you and tell you to use the primary county.
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#9 pmuller777

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Posted January 27 2019 - 11:06 PM

Thank you for all your comments and suggestions so far, please keep them coming.  I think the one about submiting my out of state refrences is a great idea as well as contacting the NRA.  This may make a good court case since it is not about some drug bust years ago rather it is about placing unreasonable restrictions on obtaining a permit which   is in direct violation of the Heller case.  Please keep the suggestions flowing.  Thank you...


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#10 M_F

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Posted January 28 2019 - 03:51 AM

Submit your application ASAP, if you get denied based on unacceptable references you can also contact Gun Owners of America, the Second Amendment Foundation, the Firearms Policy Coalition. Good Luck. 


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#11 NRATC53

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Posted January 28 2019 - 08:27 AM

The references can be from out of the county, they cannot mandate that they live in the county in which you apply


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#12 pmuller777

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Posted January 28 2019 - 10:49 AM

According to the pistol license application the references must be Suffolk county residents.   Here is the instructions re references: Qualifications: "Character References must be residents of Suffolk County who are twenty-one (21) or older and have known the Applicant for at least one (1) year.  Character References may NOT be related to the Applicant (by blood or marriage), nor may they be active law enforcement officers.  Only one member of a family or household may serve as a Character Reference for each Applicant".
 



#13 Suffolkresident

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Posted January 28 2019 - 12:04 PM

And get ready for a long ass wait.  I applied in December of 2016 with Suffolk References.  I had a clean record.  I didn't get my permit until about March or April of 2018.  It took them 8 months just to have me in for the interview with SCPD.  Then about 5 months until they contacted my wife to ask questions to see if I am sane or abusive.  Then another 3-4 to complete process.  It is a total clusterF.  I at the same time with a Basic NRA course certificate, application and fingerprints sent for my Non-Resident Virginia CCW and received that in 4 months.



#14 NRATC53

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Posted January 28 2019 - 03:12 PM

Th

 

According to the pistol license application the references must be Suffolk county residents.   Here is the instructions re references: Qualifications: "Character References must be residents of Suffolk County who are twenty-one (21) or older and have known the Applicant for at least one (1) year.  Character References may NOT be related to the Applicant (by blood or marriage), nor may they be active law enforcement officers.  Only one member of a family or household may serve as a Character Reference for each Applicant".
 

They can say that, but cannot enforce it and they know that


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#15 NRATC53

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Posted January 28 2019 - 03:13 PM

Ricekila just got his and he applied last Nov



#16 Parashooter

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Posted January 28 2019 - 05:22 PM

I think I had ONE reference that was a Suffolk resident - others were in NJ, CT and Nassau... 



#17 Shotgun682

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Posted January 28 2019 - 08:30 PM

According to the pistol license application the references must be Suffolk county residents. Here is the instructions re references: Qualifications: "Character References must be residents of Suffolk County who are twenty-one (21) or older and have known the Applicant for at least one (1) year. Character References may NOT be related to the Applicant (by blood or marriage), nor may they be active law enforcement officers. Only one member of a family or household may serve as a Character Reference for each Applicant".


You call it an application

They call it a questionnaire
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#18 Wowzer

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Posted January 29 2019 - 11:37 AM

You call it an application

They call it a questionnaire

 

 

This is true. The initial form they give you is NOT the application. How they can do this is beyond me. If you look carefully at the real application, the question regarding mental health is changed from questionnaire.

 

I hope you do sue suffolk county...they are way past a gut check on the application process. Nassau had to get sued in order to be compliant.


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#19 NRATC53

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Posted January 31 2019 - 03:42 PM

This is true. The initial form they give you is NOT the application. How they can do this is beyond me. If you look carefully at the real application, the question regarding mental health is changed from questionnaire.

 

I hope you do sue suffolk county...they are way past a gut check on the application process. Nassau had to get sued in order to be compliant.

If the NYC case at SCOTUS goes with a broad ruling, a lot of thi crap will fall (After some ore lawsuits)


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#20 TheKnot

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Posted February 01 2019 - 05:42 AM

Ricekila just got his and he applied last Nov

In less than 3 months thats impressive , mine took 5 in early 16 and i thought that was unusual .





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