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Colt Python fans

3K views 9 replies 4 participants last post by  xlh1 
#1 ·
I heard next year Colt is going to launch the new Python. I doubt it will effect the current values of older Colt revolvers.
I was in the market recently for a snub nosed revolver and purchased a Kimber K6S after looking at Ruger, Colt, Smith and Wesson and Kimber. It seems quality control and fit and finish is slipping with Colt especially. The only revolver that looked like quality was the Kimber.
Hopefully, Colt will not ruin the Python reputation.
 

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#2 ·
It was only a matter of time. I think prices will dip a little more on the older ones. The prices have been a little soft lately. It really wouldn’t be a bad thing if they do dip because I will buy more of them. I like shooting the three I do have. To me the looks and the way they shoot is more important than the value.
 
#5 ·
I certainly hope that they will come out with a 'new' Python also but I doubt it will be even vaguely close to the quality level of the original Pythons. The old Pythons were essentially hand fitted by Colt gunsmiths - most , if not all, who are long gone now. I've heard the argument that with the current CNC machines and MIM parts that they can now produce parts with greater accuracy and do not need the hand fitment of the older guns. While this is true, this does not actually result in an equal/better fitment of parts on a finished product. Case in point is Smith & Wesson's 'Classic Series'. Compare one of the new Model 27 or Model 19 to an original and they are not even close in finish or smoothness of action. The older Smiths and Colts were built in a time when labor was cheap and technology was expensive - now it is the other way around. But even with our current technology there are still certain tolerances that inherent in the manufacturing process and to match the quality level of the older guns they will still need hand fitment etc with, today, is cost prohibitive. Colt recently stated ( as reported on the 'Net' ) that to re-issue the Python with the quality level close to the originals would require a retail price of greater than $3000 or higher - and that's after they recoup their costs for R&D and setting up new tooling for the Python. How many of us are willing to spend that amount for a 'new' Python that's close to the original when we can have the original for roughly the same cost?

A perfect example is the 'New' Colt Cobra ( essentially a re-make of the Detective Special ). It is a very nice revolver - smooth trigger, accurate and ergonomically very pleasing to shoot. But when I compare it to my 1981 Detective Special it is not in the same class. The finish is matte vs the deep Colt Blue and the action - while very good - is nowhere near as smooth as the original. It's lock up is very good also but not on par with the older DS.

As I said at the beginning of this post - I hope that Colt will re-introduce the Python - but if/when they do I doubt it will be anything other a Python in name only. That said, I'd probably buy one anyway.
 
#6 ·
The Colt Python is excellent revolver. You will hear or read about the negative publicity about the Python being shot out of time in a few hundred rounds and needing parts . The Colt Python was in service for decades with many law enforcement agencies. If the Python was unreliable, Law Enforcement wouldn't allow it for service. It was an expensive revolver people purchased for a good reason.
 
#7 ·
I agree with the above post, mostly. The Python was like a highly tuned race car - superb performance but it did/does require a certain amount of maintenance if shot regularly ( especially with Magnum loads ). The weakness in the Python design was the 'hand' which rotates the cylinder assembly and also is part of the 'bank vault ' lock up of the older Colts. They can wear out over time and throw the action 'out of time' and require replacement which includes fitting - it was never a drop in piece. Colt no longer offers parts replacements for Pythons so many gunsmiths have resorted to 'stretching' the hand back into spec. This works but can only be done once. And speaking of gunsmiths, there were very few 'smiths' that were qualified to work on Pythons back in the day and they are far fewer today. The Colt V spring action is very complicated with many parts serving multiple functions and dates back to the early 20th century. It is nowhere near as strong, robust and simple as a S&W action but far smoother as a result and with much better cylinder lock up ( one of the multiple functions that the hand does ).

The fact that Law Enforcement used the Pythons ( very small compared to the use of S&W M10s etc ) does not, IMHO, indicate strength or longevity of a weapon. With all due respect to the LE community, how often are their sidearms fired in the course of duty? How many times per year do they have to qualify with said weapons. Most depts., to the best of my knowledge , have a very limited budget and cannot/ do not supply their officers with ammo to practice with on a regular basis. Very often LE guns are found in very poor cosmetic condition but with very little mechanical wear - great guns to buy as shooters.

For those of us old enough to remember when PPC events ruled the day, one always found the S&W M10 as king of the competition course because they could take the constant pounding of hundreds of rounds fired at each event. They weren't as smooth or as accurate as a Python but they could take the abuse.

I have a 1981 4" Blue Python that I have put thousands of rounds through over the years and it is just as tight and accurate ( and cosmetically near perfect ) as one could hope for. I clean and lubricate the gun after every shooting session and never have put any .357 Magnums through it ( maybe a box over the years at most ). I own and collect Colt and S&W revolvers and shoot them all. IMHO, the Colts are the finest, most refined revolvers made but the S&Ws are the strongest and require much less maintenance to keep them going.

Grant Cunningham has an on-line article talking about the strengths and weaknesses of the Python - might be worth having a read.

I love the Pythons, shoot them regularly and admire them for their craftsmanship but I do not think they were ever dsigned to be a regular 'service' gun. In Colts own words "They were to be Colts finest target revolver".
 
#8 ·
I agree with the above post, mostly. The Python was like a highly tuned race car - superb performance but it did/does require a certain amount of maintenance if shot regularly ( especially with Magnum loads ). The weakness in the Python design was the 'hand' which rotates the cylinder assembly and also is part of the 'bank vault ' lock up of the older Colts. They can wear out over time and throw the action 'out of time' and require replacement which includes fitting - it was never a drop in piece. Colt no longer offers parts replacements for Pythons so many gunsmiths have resorted to 'stretching' the hand back into spec. This works but can only be done once. And speaking of gunsmiths, there were very few 'smiths' that were qualified to work on Pythons back in the day and they are far fewer today. The Colt V spring action is very complicated with many parts serving multiple functions and dates back to the early 20th century. It is nowhere near as strong, robust and simple as a S&W action but far smoother as a result and with much better cylinder lock up ( one of the multiple functions that the hand does ).

The fact that Law Enforcement used the Pythons ( very small compared to the use of S&W M10s etc ) does not, IMHO, indicate strength or longevity of a weapon. With all due respect to the LE community, how often are their sidearms fired in the course of duty? How many times per year do they have to qualify with said weapons. Most depts., to the best of my knowledge , have a very limited budget and cannot/ do not supply their officers with ammo to practice with on a regular basis. Very often LE guns are found in very poor cosmetic condition but with very little mechanical wear - great guns to buy as shooters.

For those of us old enough to remember when PPC events ruled the day, one always found the S&W M10 as king of the competition course because they could take the constant pounding of hundreds of rounds fired at each event. They weren't as smooth or as accurate as a Python but they could take the abuse.

I have a 1981 4" Blue Python that I have put thousands of rounds through over the years and it is just as tight and accurate ( and cosmetically near perfect ) as one could hope for. I clean and lubricate the gun after every shooting session and never have put any .357 Magnums through it ( maybe a box over the years at most ). I own and collect Colt and S&W revolvers and shoot them all. IMHO, the Colts are the finest, most refined revolvers made but the S&Ws are the strongest and require much less maintenance to keep them going.

Grant Cunningham has an on-line article talking about the strengths and weaknesses of the Python - might be worth having a read.

I love the Pythons, shoot them regularly and admire them for their craftsmanship but I do not think they were ever dsigned to be a regular 'service' gun. In Colts own words "They were to be Colts finest target revolver".
I guess you haven't fired many Magnum rounds in a K frame to know about S&W as being the strongest. The L frame was introduced to address the issue. The Python was used by a few State Highway Patrol agencies. For claiming that the Smith and Wesson is the strongest,I would definitely listen to Smith and Wesson about not shooting +P in a K frame revolver made prior to 1980.
 
#9 ·
I am certainly aware of the S&W K frame issue with .357 Magnums. You are absolutely correct but the problem was in the forcing cone, as I recall, not with the frame per se. The L frame solved these problems ( not because of the frame size but because of the increased strength of the forcing cone ) and the new S&W K frames (Mod 19 ) has also, by increasing the size of the forcing cone. The S&W M19 was a collaboration between Bill Jordan and S&W to design a lighter weight duty weapon that would carry .357 Magnums on duty and be practiced with .38 Specials - not to handle a steady diet of Magnums. Remember too, the Python was built on the Colt .357 frame which was very strong - the problem not being the frame of the Python but, rather, the inherent design of the action. I'm not saying that the Python frame was insufficient for Magnums, not the case at all, but the action was more fragile than the S&W action and consistent use of Magnums only hastens the potential problem of the timing going out. I am not 'flaming' the Python at all, it is my favorite revolver ( with the S&W M27 a close second ) but my statements of the Colt action are based not only on my opinion/experience but also after several consultations with noted Python expert Frank Glenn (considered to be one the best Python 'smiths' alive today).

The fact that a few Highway Patrol depts. adopted the Python does not speak for or against the 'strengths' or serviceability of the Python, but rather is because the Python was just way too expensive back then for most PDs.

In any case, this thread is about the possibility of Colt re-introducing the Python, not a history of the past Python. As I said earlier, I doubt very seriously that it will ever be the same gun but I'd buy one anyway just because it says 'Colt Python' - if it ever happens.
 
#10 ·
Just to satisfy those who might be interested, here is Grant Cunninghams article on the Python:

Is the Colt Python revolver delicate?

Posted by: Grant Cunningham

There is an assertion that comes up with surprising frequency, particularly in the internet age where everyone is an expert: the Colt Python (and all other Colt revolvers) are "delicate", "go out of time easily", or "not as strong/durable as a S&W."

Let's start with the construction: a Colt revolver, for any given frame size, is as strong as any gun with that frame size. Their metallurgy is absolutely the best, and their forged construction is of superior quality. They are superbly made, and their longevity is a testimony to that fact. You are never compromising when you choose a Colt!

How about the charge of "delicate" or "goes out of time easily"? In my work, I see a lot of Colts; I shoot them extensively myself. With proper maintenance, I've seen no tendency for any Colt to go unexpectedly out of time. Yet, the rumors persist!

Why do such opinions exist if there wasn't some basis to them? Is there some amount of truth? I think I can answer that!

Let's start with some facts: Colt revolvers have actions which are very refined. Their operating surfaces are very small, and are precisely adjusted to make the guns work properly. Setting them up properly is not a job for someone who isn't intimately familiar with their workings, and the gunsmith who works on them had better be accustomed to working at narrow tolerances, on small parts, under magnification.

Colt's design and construction is unique; it uses the hand (the "pawl" which rotates the cylinder) and the bolt (the stop at the bottom of the frame opening) to hold the cylinder perfectly still when the gun fires. The action is designed so that the hand - which is the easiest part to replace - will take the majority of the wear, and is expected to be changed when wear exceeds a specific point.

This is considered normal maintenance in a Colt revolver, which is not the case with any other brand. To get their famous "bank vault" cylinder locking and attendant accuracy, you have to accept a certain amount of maintenance; it goes with ownership of such a fine instrument.

I've often made the statement that a Colt is like a Ferrari; to get the gilt-edged performance, you have to accept that they will require more maintenance than a Ford pickup. Unlike gun owners, however, folks who own Italy's finest don't complain that they are more "delicate" than an F-150!

I truly think that the negative reputation that Colts have in some quarters is because their owners - unschooled in the uniqueness of the Colt action - apply the same standards of condition that they would to their more pedestrian S&W guns.

What standards? A Colt, when the trigger is pulled and held back, should have absolutely no cylinder rotation. None, zip, zilch - absolutely no movement at all! Not a little, not a bit, not a smidgen - zero movement. A S&W, on the other hand, normally has a bit of rotational play - which is considered absolutely normal and fine.

There's another measurement to consider: at rest, a Colt cylinder should move front-to-back no more than .003″ (that's 3/1,000 of an inch.) This is - in the absolute worst case - about half of the allowable S&W movement!

Now, let's say a S&W owner, used to their looser standards of cylinder lockup, buys a Colt. He goes and shoots it a bit, and the hand (which probably has a bit of wear already, as he bought it used) is approaching the normal replacement interval. He checks his gun, and finds that the cylinder has just the slightest amount of movement when the trigger is back, and half of his S&W's longitudinal travel. Heck, he thinks, it's still a lot tighter than his Smith so it must be fine to keep shooting it.

WRONG! It's at this point that he should stop shooting, and take it to an experienced Colt gunsmith to have the action adjusted. Of course, he doesn't do this - he keeps shooting. The cylinder beats harder against the frame, compresses the ratchet (ejector), causing the hand to wear even faster, and the combination of the two leads to a worn bolt. If left unchecked, the worn bolt can do damage to the rebound lever. When it finally starts spitting lead and misfiring, he takes it in and finds to his astonishment that he's facing a $400 (or more!) repair bill, and perhaps a 6 month wait to find a new ratchet.

Of course, he'll now fire up his computer and declare to anyone who will listen that Colts are "delicate" and "go out of time easily" and are "hard to get parts for." That, folks, appears to be the true origin of these fallacies.

Colts do require more routine maintenance, and a more involved owner; that's a fact. But, as long as the maintenance is performed properly, a Colt will happily digest thousands upon thousands of rounds without complaint. The owners who take care of them will be rewarded with a gun that is a delight to shoot, wonderfully accurate, and visually unmatched. Those who don't will sell them off at a loss and complain on the internet.

I sincerely hope that you will choose to be the first type of Colt owner. If, however, you are the second, please drop me a note - I'm always in the market for Colt revolvers at fire-sale prices!
 
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