Can Suffolk County legally take over 6 months to process your pistol permit? - Page 2 - Suffolk County (licensing/laws) - Long Island Firearms

Jump to content


Welcome to Long Island Firearms, Long Island's premier source for news and education!

Welcome to Long Island Firearms, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of Long Island Firearms by signing in or creating an account. You also have the ability to login with your facebook or twitter account. See the icons in the upper right hand corner.
  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Customize your experience here
Get the latest facts on the new NY SAFE gun laws that effect you!

Photo

Can Suffolk County legally take over 6 months to process your pistol permit?

suffolk permit 6 months legally

  • Please log in to reply
53 replies to this topic

#21 Incognito

Incognito

    Gun Guru

  • Club LIF Member
  • 2000 posts
  • LocationSmithtown, NY

Posted August 09 2018 - 11:26 AM

By filling out the questionare (Not an appliaction) to lengthy waiting period t.....

 

 

The questionnaire and $10 fee is an application, not an application.

 

The questionnaire and $10 fee is an act of requesting, not a form to be filled out by an applicant.

 

The questionnaire and the 10$ starts the act of requesting.

 

 

Here are several uses for the word "application" http://www.dictionar...se/application:
4. the act of requesting
5. a written or spoken request or appeal for employment, admission, help, funds, etc.
6. a form to be filled out by an applicant

 

 

Here is the long version of the explanation.

 

https://www.longisla...sus-application


Edited by Incognito, August 09 2018 - 11:27 AM.

  • Ballistic likes this

# Advertisement

Advertisement

Posted A minute ago



#22 Incognito

Incognito

    Gun Guru

  • Club LIF Member
  • 2000 posts
  • LocationSmithtown, NY

Posted August 09 2018 - 11:34 AM

We put the time limit and specific "short staffing" in the bill for a reason.

I don't see "short staffing" in the text of the law; however, the law says "Such delay may only be for good cause and with respect to the applicant."

Short staffing would not meet the standard "with respect to the applicant".

4-a.  Processing  of  license  applications. Applications for licenses
  shall be accepted for processing by the licensing officer at the time of
  presentment. Except upon written notice to  the  applicant  specifically
  stating  the  reasons  for any delay, in each case the licensing officer
  shall act upon any application for a license pursuant  to  this  section
  within  six  months of the date of presentment of such an application to
  the appropriate authority. Such delay may only be  for  good  cause  and
  with  respect  to  the  applicant.  In  acting  upon an application, the
  licensing  officer  shall  either  deny  the  application  for   reasons
  specifically  and  concisely  stated in writing or grant the application
  and issue the license applied for.

Edited by Incognito, August 09 2018 - 11:45 AM.


#23 trapshooterbob

trapshooterbob

    Gun Guru

  • LIF Site Moderator
  • Others: Club LIF Member

  • 4433 posts
  • LocationBohemia, NY

Posted August 09 2018 - 11:45 AM

I spoke with a Suffolk County Legislator, basically SCPD is the problem is getting in the way on purpose to make it difficult to get licensed and to buy a handgun (two trips to Yaphank). Pure and simple. And, it aint gonna change any time soon.

 

 

 

Wrong.

 

The police commissioner probably has the largest personnel budget of any Suffolk County department.

The Suffolk County PD has been dealing with the US Attorney's office to make corrections in other areas. The reports are on the SCPD website, check them out.

I would be shocked if they are so overwhelmed that retiring officers don't get their licenses in a timely manner.

The police commissioner can choose priorities and reallocate resources.

 

To me that demonstrates intent not to follow the law.

 

 

Can analogies derived from the legislative intent of New York Penal Law §20.20 and §20.25 be made in assessing the culpability of the actors in this case? Is 2(b below problematic for the County Executive, the Police Commissioner and the Public Safety Committee of the Suffolk County Legislative? I believe government workers do get some limited protection for acts performed in the scope of their employment..

 

New York Penal Law §20.20 and §20.25

 

20.20 Criminal liability of corporations.

1. As used in this section:

(a) "Agent" means any director, officer or employee of a corporation, or any other person who is authorized to act in behalf of the corporation.

(b "High managerial agent" means an officer of a corporation or any other agent in a position of comparable authority with respect to the formulation of corporate policy or the supervision in a managerial capacity of subordinate employees.

2. A corporation is guilty of an offense when:

(a) The conduct constituting the offense consists of an omission to discharge a specific duty of affirmative performance imposed on corporations by law; or

( b The conduct constituting the offense is engaged in, authorized, solicited, requested, commanded, or recklessly tolerated by the board of directors or by a high managerial agent acting within the scope of his employment and in behalf of the corporation; or

(c  The conduct constituting the offense is engaged in by an agent of the corporation while acting within the scope of his employment and in behalf of the corporation, and the offense is (i) a misdemeanor or a violation, (ii) one defined by a statute which clearly indicates a legislative intent to impose such criminal liability on a corporation, or (iii) any offense set forth in title twenty-seven of article seventy-one of the environmental conservation law.

 

20.25 Criminal liability of an individual for corporate conduct.

A person is criminally liable for conduct constituting an offense which he performs or causes to be performed in the name of or in behalf of a corporation to the same extent as if such conduct were performed in his own name or behalf.



#24 Incognito

Incognito

    Gun Guru

  • Club LIF Member
  • 2000 posts
  • LocationSmithtown, NY

Posted August 09 2018 - 11:56 AM

And, it aint gonna change any time soon.

 

The time between submitting and application and getting an interview has decreased since April from 1 year to 9 months.

It this a trend or aberration? Time will tell.


  • trapshooterbob likes this

#25 Ricekila

Ricekila

    Banned

  • Banned
  • Others: Established Member
  • 1906 posts
  • LocationSwindlehurst

Posted August 09 2018 - 01:50 PM

Handed in my questionnaire on  2 / Oct -- had my first interview yesterday - 



#26 JohnnyYen

JohnnyYen

    Advanced Member

  • Established Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 41 posts
  • LocationDownstate NY (democrat sewer)

Posted August 09 2018 - 02:27 PM

Unbeknownst to all of us Suffolk residents, your initial paperwork with SCPD is merely an 'intrusive questionnaire'. They will receive the questionnaire and schedule an interview in Yaphank. It took me 13 months from the time that I sent the questionnaire to have an interview scheduled.

 

 

Once you conduct your interview in Yaphank, your investigating officer will take your fingerprints and complete the Albany NYS application. The six-month clock starts from that point. You cannot complete the application and submit it with the questionnaire - they won't allow it...  

 

 

Yes, its bullshit. Yes, its a huge turn-off towards the 'good guys'... There's absolutely nothing that we can about it except wait. 



#27 trapshooterbob

trapshooterbob

    Gun Guru

  • LIF Site Moderator
  • Others: Club LIF Member

  • 4433 posts
  • LocationBohemia, NY

Posted August 09 2018 - 02:28 PM

The time between submitting and application and getting an interview has decreased since April from 1 year to 9 months.

It this a trend or aberration? Time will tell.

 

I hope it's a trend, but the process itself won't change as long as the powers that be in Suffolk County continue to be in power.



#28 JohnnyYen

JohnnyYen

    Advanced Member

  • Established Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 41 posts
  • LocationDownstate NY (democrat sewer)

Posted August 09 2018 - 02:32 PM

 

 

But go ahead, do nothing...

 

what can be done? be realistic... 

 

 

not a damn thing can be done. Its their show. They can ruin your life if they want to. Sure, you'll eventually win in court, but only after spending thousands on legal fees not to mention losing time (work), and maybe spending a few days in the slammer. 

 

 

these people are not your friends... They're the IRS (tax collectors for the state) with semi-auto weapons,  overblown egos, and a  militia behind them..

 

 

yes, you will roll over and do what your told.. that's what adults do. 



#29 SpankyTheDolphin

SpankyTheDolphin

    Respected Gunowner

  • Established Member + Classifieds
  • 101 posts
  • Location516

Posted August 09 2018 - 03:39 PM

what can be done? be realistic... 

 

 

not a damn thing can be done. Its their show. They can ruin your life if they want to. Sure, you'll eventually win in court, but only after spending thousands on legal fees not to mention losing time (work), and maybe spending a few days in the slammer. 

 

 

these people are not your friends... They're the IRS (tax collectors for the state) with semi-auto weapons,  overblown egos, and a  militia behind them..

 

 

yes, you will roll over and do what your told.. that's what adults do. 

 

Or, like someone else here said, once you officially complain with the courts or whoever you'd go to that they're taking longer than 6 months they approve you to end that case and move on to taking their time with everyone else.


  • Parashooter likes this

#30 Incognito

Incognito

    Gun Guru

  • Club LIF Member
  • 2000 posts
  • LocationSmithtown, NY

Posted August 09 2018 - 05:12 PM

Unbeknownst to all of us Suffolk residents, your initial paperwork with SCPD is merely an 'intrusive questionnaire'.

Once you conduct your interview in Yaphank, your investigating officer will take your fingerprints and complete the Albany NYS application.

The six-month clock starts from that point. You cannot complete the application and submit it with the questionnaire - they won't allow it...  

 

 

You post is wrong because you are repeating an interpretation from someone who either failed reading comprehension or is pulling your leg.

 

Here is the long version of the explanation.

 

https://www.longisla...sus-application


Edited by Incognito, August 09 2018 - 05:20 PM.

  • NRATC53 and Ricekila like this

#31 2edgesword

2edgesword

    Gun Guru

  • Donated Member
  • 7105 posts

Posted August 09 2018 - 09:34 PM

You post is wrong because you are repeating an interpretation from someone who either failed reading comprehension or is pulling your leg.

 

Here is the long version of the explanation.

 

https://www.longisla...sus-application

 

Unfortunately SCPD gets to define what is logical and what constitutes the application in this circumstance.

 

No one interested in logical and reason can read the reference to the six month time frame in PL400 and not understand that the intent of the legislature was to limit the time someone would have to wait to get a pistol license to six months. The police commissioner has decided to disregard the will of the legislature and the will of the people to do whatever the heck he feels like doing. The law is clear, the intent of the legislation is clear but the police commissioner believes he is above the law.



#32 Incognito

Incognito

    Gun Guru

  • Club LIF Member
  • 2000 posts
  • LocationSmithtown, NY

Posted August 09 2018 - 11:34 PM

Unfortunately SCPD gets to define what is logical and what constitutes the application in this circumstance.

 

No one interested in logical and reason can read the reference to the six month time frame in PL400 and not understand that the intent of the legislature was to limit the time someone would have to wait to get a pistol license to six months. The police commissioner has decided to disregard the will of the legislature and the will of the people to do whatever the heck he feels like doing. The law is clear, the intent of the legislation is clear but the police commissioner believes he is above the law.

 

I concur. The Suffolk County Police Commissioner gets to create the process used to request a license in the 5 western towns of Suffolk County and create its version of form PPB-3, a State of New York Pistol/Revolver License Application, which form is approved by Superintendent of State Police. The Suffolk County Police Commissioner gets to inquire about topics that other licensing officers in New York State don't inquire about.

 

I also concur that the Suffolk County Police Commissioner does not have the authority to extend the 6 month time limit to deny or grant a request for a license without just cause no matter how convoluted the process is.


  • 2edgesword likes this

#33 Punisher1336

Punisher1336

    MOLON LABE

  • Established Member + Classifieds
  • 3228 posts

Posted August 10 2018 - 12:47 AM

Pick a single issue candidate and have the gun owners vote for him/her for county exec. If gun owners actually went to the polls and voted for a 2A candidate a win would be certain.The new county exec would appoint a commissioner and a dozen chiefs that would follow the letter of the law. Problem solved.

#34 Parashooter

Parashooter

    Gun Guru

  • Established Member + Classifieds
  • 11552 posts

Posted August 10 2018 - 06:40 AM

The questionnaire and $10 fee is an application, not an application.

 

The questionnaire and $10 fee is an act of requesting, not a form to be filled out by an applicant.

 

The questionnaire and the 10$ starts the act of requesting.

 

 

Here are several uses for the word "application" http://www.dictionar...se/application:
4. the act of requesting
5. a written or spoken request or appeal for employment, admission, help, funds, etc.
6. a form to be filled out by an applicant

 

 

Here is the long version of the explanation.

 

https://www.longisla...sus-application

 

 

You post is wrong because you are repeating an interpretation from someone who either failed reading comprehension or is pulling your leg.

 

Here is the long version of the explanation.

 

https://www.longisla...sus-application

 

 

Yeah.... but the "application" you are referring to is NOT an application - it is an APPLICANT questionnaire - a test, a quiz, to see if you qualify FOR an application...... Since the SCPD PLB is playing games with our rights, and abusing Law-Abiding-Citizens with their game of taking your QUIZ, and then deciding when they will bring you in for an 'interview' - which is in reality an "APPLICATION appointment" (since that's when they have you fill out the NY STATE APPLICATION) and 'starting the clock'....

 

It's abuse.  Plain and simple.  The commissioner, and all under him should be up on charges.  but as usual the laws have no teeth when it comes to governmental abuse.


  • KPvette, Ricekila and JohnnyYen like this

#35 Nordon

Nordon

    Gun Guru

  • Donated Member
  • 6479 posts
  • LocationEast Northport, not far from Brooklyn

Posted August 10 2018 - 07:07 AM

Yeah.... but the "application" you are referring to is NOT an application - it is an APPLICANT questionnaire - a test, a quiz, to see if you qualify FOR an application...... Since the SCPD PLB is playing games with our rights, and abusing Law-Abiding-Citizens with their game of taking your QUIZ, and then deciding when they will bring you in for an 'interview' - which is in reality an "APPLICATION appointment" (since that's when they have you fill out the NY STATE APPLICATION) and 'starting the clock'....
 
It's abuse.  Plain and simple.  The commissioner, and all under him should be up on charges.  but as usual the laws have no teeth when it comes to governmental abuse.


I said this before, this “2 form” requirement happened after the passing of the SAFE Act, for which the only good, yes good, part of it was to standardize on one state application, which is far less intrusive than the SC Application (no questions on Rx drugs), so SC came up with this nonsense to still keep their “questionnaire” in place, which I say is an issue because we are required to fill out 2 applications for 1 license.

#36 Fotheringill

Fotheringill

    Gun Guru

  • Established Member + Classifieds
  • 763 posts

Posted August 10 2018 - 09:36 AM

Short answer? No, it isnt legal. Real life? They do it every day, because if someone files an Article 78, THAT PERSON (and only that person) gets their license issued before the case goes to court, thereby removing their standing.There is no penalty for their delays, so they go on doing it

In the above lies the answer.

 

Other than the cost, because a lay person sure as hell doesn't know how to draft the papers or argue in court, that proceeding can easily take well over a year from start to finish. The process is what the process is. Would you not want other Article 78 petitioners' cases move forward faster, like those involving arbitrary, capricious, and unequal real estate tax assessments?



#37 JohnnyYen

JohnnyYen

    Advanced Member

  • Established Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 41 posts
  • LocationDownstate NY (democrat sewer)

Posted August 10 2018 - 09:53 AM

Yeah.... but the "application" you are referring to is NOT an application - it is an APPLICANT questionnaire - a test, a quiz, to see if you qualify FOR an application...... Since the SCPD PLB is playing games with our rights, and abusing Law-Abiding-Citizens with their game of taking your QUIZ, and then deciding when they will bring you in for an 'interview' - which is in reality an "APPLICATION appointment" (since that's when they have you fill out the NY STATE APPLICATION) and 'starting the clock'....

 

It's abuse.  Plain and simple.  The commissioner, and all under him should be up on charges.  but as usual the laws have no teeth when it comes to governmental abuse.

 

 

this post hits the nail right on the head. 

 

Terminology doesn't matter. As I've said before - it's their show - we're at their mercy - there's nothing that we can do except elect new officials.

 

I'll bet that EVERY person on this forum votes when its time to vote. It doesn't help. We're the minority in this vampire state. Considering that our governor and the majority of appointed and elected officials despise us, it's very doubtful that we'll ever have any impact. 



#38 SpankyTheDolphin

SpankyTheDolphin

    Respected Gunowner

  • Established Member + Classifieds
  • 101 posts
  • Location516

Posted August 10 2018 - 11:15 AM

this post hits the nail right on the head. 

 

Terminology doesn't matter. As I've said before - it's their show - we're at their mercy - there's nothing that we can do except elect new officials.

 

I'll bet that EVERY person on this forum votes when its time to vote. It doesn't help. We're the minority in this vampire state. Considering that our governor and the majority of appointed and elected officials despise us, it's very doubtful that we'll ever have any impact. 

 

I've noticed a lot of my gun owning friends have either left the state or given up the hobby because of laws. It's an uphill battle but I think if there were a solid way to align all gun owners on one candidate we'd be set but there's a lot of different 'classes' of gun owners. Plenty of people that call themselves supporters of the 2nd Amendment but, in the same breath, say you don't need an AR15 baby killing assault weapon of war.



#39 Incognito

Incognito

    Gun Guru

  • Club LIF Member
  • 2000 posts
  • LocationSmithtown, NY

Posted August 11 2018 - 03:16 PM

Guys,

 

Some of you are focusing on one step of the process to request a pistol license in Suffolk County which is not the step that the six month requirement is measured from.

 

I have provided links to lots of information which should be read and considered before reaching your own conclusion. At the risk of being repetitive, I will try one last time to explain how I see it.

 

The SCPDPLB can establish its own procedures but is compelled to act within the law set out at Article 400 of the Penal Code when considering requests for pistol licenses (defined for purposes of this discussions as the “Pistol License Request(s)”).

 

As an aside, it might take some type of action to correct the SCPDPLB’s practices that do not comply with Article 400. That does not mean we “are at their mercy”. It means we have not yet successfully fully explored all options available. Some of you sound defeated by your posts. It will be more difficult to bring about change if that mindset, especially for new members, dominates this forum which is why I am being persistent about this matter. Nassau county applicants brought about change because it was cost effective for individual applicants to do so thanks to the generosity of one of our members. It would be great if an equally qualified member took up the cause in Suffolk.

 

The procedures that the SCPDPLB uses to process Pistol License Requests are described in their document PDCS-4061 (referred to as either Guide To Obtaining a Suffolk County Pistol License (PDCS-4016) or An Overview Of The Pistol Licensing Process In Suffolk County), the first sentence of which is, "The following is a guide to the procedure to apply for a New York State Pistol License issued by Suffolk County Police Department."

 

 

The first three steps summarized on page one in the Guide To Obtaining a Suffolk County Pistol License are:

  1. Step 1 - Applicants are urged to carefully read the provided list of automatic disqualifications and determine if any are applicable. If any are, the applicant need take no further action as they are ineligible to obtain a pistol license.
  2. Step 2 - The applicant must decide what type of license she/he desires. Descriptions of each license type are provided in this guide as well as in the Pistol License Information Handbook. Please note that applicants may apply for multiple types of licenses simultaneously, i.e. Sportsman/Business.
  3. Step 3 - The Applicant Questionnaire must be completed in a thorough and legible manner. It is delivered in person or by U.S. mail to the Pistol Licensing Bureau in accordance with the instructions detailed herein. A check or money order in the amount of $10.00 payable to “S.C.P.D.” must accompany the completed Applicant Questionnaire

 

Step 3 is the step that the six month requirement is measured from. It is in that manner at that time that the Pistol License Request is presented and accepted for processing by the licensing officer. Deferring the presentation of other items to the SCPDPLB until time of the interview pursuant to their procedures does not circumvent the obvious intent of the law to generally deny or grant a request for a license within 6 months. The law specifically states that the licensing officer shall accept the request upon presentment for a reason, to eliminate gamesmanship.

 

One online dictionary (https://www.dictiona...wse/application ) has 10 definitions for the word application. The ninth definition (a salve, ointment, or the like, applied as a soothing or healing agent) is obviously the wrong one to use when interpreting the law. The fifth definition (a form to be filled out by an applicant, as for a job or a driver's license) makes sense in most of the context. But the fourth definition (the act of requesting) is the only one that makes sense in every context of New York Penal Law §400.00(4-a) setting out the time requirement and the exceptions thereto and is therefore the best definition to use. You do not deny or grant a form. You deny or grant a request.

 

Beyond that subsection, I dare those still not convinced of which definition to apply to go to the law and see which definition works best in the remainder of Article 400.00. http://ypdcrime.com/...400.htm#p400.00. The fourth definition works, and is intended to work, in some cases but the fifth definition - the act of requesting - works in many more.


Edited by Incognito, August 11 2018 - 04:33 PM.

  • NRATC53 and Parashooter like this

#40 NRATC53

NRATC53

    Now an Ex NYer

  • Donated Member
  • 24589 posts

Posted August 11 2018 - 08:29 PM

Guys,

 

Some of you are focusing on one step of the process to request a pistol license in Suffolk County which is not the step that the six month requirement is measured from.

 

I have provided links to lots of information which should be read and considered before reaching your own conclusion. At the risk of being repetitive, I will try one last time to explain how I see it.

 

The SCPDPLB can establish its own procedures but is compelled to act within the law set out at Article 400 of the Penal Code when considering requests for pistol licenses (defined for purposes of this discussions as the “Pistol License Request(s)”).

 

As an aside, it might take some type of action to correct the SCPDPLB’s practices that do not comply with Article 400. That does not mean we “are at their mercy”. It means we have not yet successfully fully explored all options available. Some of you sound defeated by your posts. It will be more difficult to bring about change if that mindset, especially for new members, dominates this forum which is why I am being persistent about this matter. Nassau county applicants brought about change because it was cost effective for individual applicants to do so thanks to the generosity of one of our members. It would be great if an equally qualified member took up the cause in Suffolk.

 

The procedures that the SCPDPLB uses to process Pistol License Requests are described in their document PDCS-4061 (referred to as either Guide To Obtaining a Suffolk County Pistol License (PDCS-4016) or An Overview Of The Pistol Licensing Process In Suffolk County), the first sentence of which is, "The following is a guide to the procedure to apply for a New York State Pistol License issued by Suffolk County Police Department."

 

 

The first three steps summarized on page one in the Guide To Obtaining a Suffolk County Pistol License are:

  1. Step 1 - Applicants are urged to carefully read the provided list of automatic disqualifications and determine if any are applicable. If any are, the applicant need take no further action as they are ineligible to obtain a pistol license.
  2. Step 2 - The applicant must decide what type of license she/he desires. Descriptions of each license type are provided in this guide as well as in the Pistol License Information Handbook. Please note that applicants may apply for multiple types of licenses simultaneously, i.e. Sportsman/Business.
  3. Step 3 - The Applicant Questionnaire must be completed in a thorough and legible manner. It is delivered in person or by U.S. mail to the Pistol Licensing Bureau in accordance with the instructions detailed herein. A check or money order in the amount of $10.00 payable to “S.C.P.D.” must accompany the completed Applicant Questionnaire

 

Step 3 is the step that the six month requirement is measured from. It is in that manner at that time that the Pistol License Request is presented and accepted for processing by the licensing officer. Deferring the presentation of other items to the SCPDPLB until time of the interview pursuant to their procedures does not circumvent the obvious intent of the law to generally deny or grant a request for a license within 6 months. The law specifically states that the licensing officer shall accept the request upon presentment for a reason, to eliminate gamesmanship.

 

One online dictionary (https://www.dictiona...wse/application ) has 10 definitions for the word application. The ninth definition (a salve, ointment, or the like, applied as a soothing or healing agent) is obviously the wrong one to use when interpreting the law. The fifth definition (a form to be filled out by an applicant, as for a job or a driver's license) makes sense in most of the context. But the fourth definition (the act of requesting) is the only one that makes sense in every context of New York Penal Law §400.00(4-a) setting out the time requirement and the exceptions thereto and is therefore the best definition to use. You do not deny or grant a form. You deny or grant a request.

 

Beyond that subsection, I dare those still not convinced of which definition to apply to go to the law and see which definition works best in the remainder of Article 400.00. http://ypdcrime.com/...400.htm#p400.00. The fourth definition works, and is intended to work, in some cases but the fifth definition - the act of requesting - works in many more.

Exactly. THEY are the ones saying it doesn't apply. These are the same people breaking the law







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: suffolk, permit, 6 months, legally

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users