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Get the latest facts on the new NY SAFE gun laws that effect you!

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Transfer NYS Registered Assault Rifle Back to NY From NC.

transfer nys registered assault rifle back to ny from nc

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80 replies to this topic

#21 Swstock

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Posted August 18 2016 - 04:57 PM

Afaik, there is no un-registration process..therefore they're still registered here.

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#22 only7rounds

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Posted August 18 2016 - 06:42 PM

There is nothing in the law that says you can not take a registered AW out of State - clearly (in my opinion) you could take it to a State where it is legal for hunting or target shooting and bring it back, because it is already a registered AW.
If you take it out of State PERMANENTLY you are supposed to notify the State Police, and NO, it can not be brought back.

Not too sure where all this leads, but that is my opinion.

#23 only7rounds

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Posted August 18 2016 - 06:43 PM

Afaik, there is no un-registration process..therefore they're still registered here.


Yes, there is. You can notify them it has been altered to no longer be an AW, or that it has been removed from the State.

#24 DEUCE

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Posted August 18 2016 - 09:45 PM

Thank you all for your responses and advice. Allow me to respond to some questions, My wife and I moved back to NY from Cary NC because we missed our sons and grandsons and realized there is no substitute for family even though the mountains and country side of NC are breathtaking, honestly, we missed the pizza. I shipped the rifle down to a FFL in NC from NY because I did not want to break any state laws by transferring this rifle in a car. I took possession of the rifle while I lived in NC but never changed the address on the NY registration form. The rifle is now at the FFL in NC in preparation for transfer back to NY (Campsite in Huntington) but I wanted to make sure this was legal. I would think that as long as it is still registered in NY that I would legally be allowed to do so and just complete a change of address on the registration form to my new NY address. What do you guys think and is there someone that I can call to be sure?, thanks guys, Deuce.

#25 Parashooter

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Posted August 18 2016 - 10:20 PM

Thank you all for your responses and advice. Allow me to respond to some questions, My wife and I moved back to NY from Cary NC because we missed our sons and grandsons and realized there is no substitute for family even though the mountains and country side of NC are breathtaking, honestly, we missed the pizza. I shipped the rifle down to a FFL in NC from NY because I did not want to break any state laws by transferring this rifle in a car. I took possession of the rifle while I lived in NC but never changed the address on the NY registration form. The rifle is now at the FFL in NC in preparation for transfer back to NY (Campsite in Huntington) but I wanted to make sure this was legal. I would think that as long as it is still registered in NY that I would legally be allowed to do so and just complete a change of address on the registration form to my new NY address. What do you guys think and is there someone that I can call to be sure?, thanks guys, Deuce.


To uncomplicate things (especially future things...) you didn't "transfer" it - you SHIPPED it. the word 'transfer' will be an issue with the state - even though you never lost ownership, if you say you "transferred" it - it will be construed as you losing ownership.

In the car you would be TRANSPORTING not 'transferring' which would have been legal under FOPA (irrelevant now, but you could just put it in the trunk and bring it back.)

Simplest thing is to bring it home - and do a change of address without complicating issues with questions. (and if you DO call the state and ask questions - get the answers in writing, and get names of who you spoke to - although they won't acknowledge anything they tell you in the future)

#26 DEUCE

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Posted August 18 2016 - 10:34 PM

To uncomplicate things (especially future things...) you didn't "transfer" it - you SHIPPED it. the word 'transfer' will be an issue with the state - even though you never lost ownership, if you say you "transferred" it - it will be construed as you losing ownership.

In the car you would be TRANSPORTING not 'transferring' which would have been legal under FOPA (irrelevant now, but you could just put it in the trunk and bring it back.)

Simplest thing is to bring it home - and do a change of address without complicating issues with questions. (and if you DO call the state and ask questions - get the answers in writing, and get names of who you spoke to - although they won't acknowledge anything they tell you in the future)


Thanks Parashooter, You are correct, I did ship it not transfer it to a NC FFL. I am already in NY and my rifle is at the NC FFL. I will call someone at the State Police and ask the question, I wonder if they will know the answer, this SAFE Law is mind blowing.

#27 leftjammer

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Posted August 18 2016 - 10:37 PM

you have to show in cuomo's office with it in your hands and ask the princess personally...

#28 only7rounds

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Posted August 18 2016 - 10:50 PM

Thank you all for your responses and advice. Allow me to respond to some questions, My wife and I moved back to NY from Cary NC because we missed our sons and grandsons and realized there is no substitute for family even though the mountains and country side of NC are breathtaking, honestly, we missed the pizza. I shipped the rifle down to a FFL in NC from NY because I did not want to break any state laws by transferring this rifle in a car. I took possession of the rifle while I lived in NC but never changed the address on the NY registration form. The rifle is now at the FFL in NC in preparation for transfer back to NY (Campsite in Huntington) but I wanted to make sure this was legal. I would think that as long as it is still registered in NY that I would legally be allowed to do so and just complete a change of address on the registration form to my new NY address. What do you guys think and is there someone that I can call to be sure?, thanks guys, Deuce.


You have made this too complicated. Campsite would most likely have to do a Brady check and book the rifle, and at that point it is doubtful they would transfer it to you.
The answer from the State Police is going to be NO.

If you had simply brought it back with you, I doubt there would have been a problem since you can produce registration papers.
But I doubt that a dealer can simply give it to you. That creates legal liability for him.

#29 Bat21

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Posted August 18 2016 - 11:31 PM

The joy of dribs of info. Don't ask the police. The answer you get may or may not be correct. Tell campsite its a registered weapon and show them the paperwork then ask if they can accept the gun and give it to you. Don't go into a whole explanation. Just say you were in NC temporarily. Don't explain your whole life story. You seem to be trying to create problems for yourself. Again, if you were in NC with the intention to come back to NY, you should be ok. If you left without the intention to come back, the gun was transferred out of the state and is not supposed to come back.
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#30 grifhunter

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Posted August 19 2016 - 01:34 AM

So is it your assertion that title is being transferred directly from seller in State A to buyer in State B? That contravenes 18 USC 922(a)(5). At best you can say the FFL has voidable title.



Not under UCC 2-403 (except in Louisiana maybe). The seller and buyer are left only with an unsecured claim against the FFL and cannot recover the gun from the purchaser.





Title and possession are two different issues but separating them in this case contravenes the regulatory scheme of the GCA. The seller/buyer can recover title from the FFL but if the FFL is in bankruptcy replevin is not possible and if sold the voidable title becomes good title in the purchaser.


I'm looking at the law of bailment, and this is to me a classic bailment. Title isn't being transferred.

"The temporary placement of control over, or possession of Personal Property by one person, the bailor, into the hands of another, the bailee, for a designated purpose upon which the parties have agreed.The term bailment is derived from the French bailor, "to deliver." It is generally considered to be a contractual relationship since the bailor and bailee, either expressly or impliedly, bind themselves to act according to particular terms. The bailee receives only control or possession of the property while the bailor retains the ownership interests in it. During the specific period a bailment exists, the bailee's interest in the property is superior to that of all others, including the bailor, unless the bailee violates some term of the agreement. Once the purpose for which the property has been delivered has been accomplished, the property will be returned to the bailor or otherwise disposed of pursuant to the bailor's directions.
A bailment is not the same as a sale, which is an intentional transfer of ownership of personal property in exchange for something of value. A bailment involves only a transfer of possession or custody, not of ownership. A rental or lease of personal property might be a bailment, depending upon the agreement of the parties. A bailment is created when a parking garage attendant, the bailee, is given the keys to a motor vehicle by its owner, the bailor. The owner, in addition to renting the space, has transferred possession and control of the vehicle by relinquishing its keys to the attendant. If the keys were not made available and the vehicle was locked, the arrangement would be strictly a rental or lease, since there was no transfer of possession.

A gratuitous loan and the delivery of property for repair or safekeeping are also typical situations in which a bailment is created..."

http://legal-diction...ry.com/Bailment

Edited by grifhunter, August 19 2016 - 01:39 AM.

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#31 VtwinHP

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Posted August 19 2016 - 04:04 AM

You have made this too complicated. Campsite would most likely have to do a Brady check and book the rifle, and at that point it is doubtful they would transfer it to you.
The answer from the State Police is going to be NO.

If you had simply brought it back with you, I doubt there would have been a problem since you can produce registration papers.
But I doubt that a dealer can simply give it to you. That creates legal liability for him.

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#32 VtwinHP

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Posted August 19 2016 - 04:12 AM

Thanks Parashooter, You are correct, I did ship it not transfer it to a NC FFL. I am already in NY and my rifle is at the NC FFL. I will call someone at the State Police and ask the question, I wonder if they will know the answer, this SAFE Law is mind blowing.

. State PD is going to say NO. You have two options. Take a drive,pick it up and drive your NYS registered item back home to NY. Or have the North Carolina modify it to NYS compliant and ship it to FFL where it can be legally transferred NICs check, and will not be considered registrable AW.
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#33 Parashooter

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Posted August 19 2016 - 07:31 AM

You have made this too complicated. Campsite would most likely have to do a Brady check and book the rifle, and at that point it is doubtful they would transfer it to you.
The answer from the State Police is going to be NO.

If you had simply brought it back with you, I doubt there would have been a problem since you can produce registration papers.
But I doubt that a dealer can simply give it to you. That creates legal liability for him.


Forget calling the PD - the ONLY answer you might get WILL be 'no' it's a default, and they are not allowed to give a legal opinion.

The joy of dribs of info. Don't ask the police. The answer you get may or may not be correct. Tell campsite its a registered weapon and show them the paperwork then ask if they can accept the gun and give it to you. Don't go into a whole explanation. Just say you were in NC temporarily. Don't explain your whole life story. You seem to be trying to create problems for yourself. Again, if you were in NC with the intention to come back to NY, you should be ok. If you left without the intention to come back, the gun was transferred out of the state and is not supposed to come back.

. State PD is going to say NO. You have two options. Take a drive,pick it up and drive your NYS registered item back home to NY. Or have the North Carolina modify it to NYS compliant and ship it to FFL where it can be legally transferred NICs check, and will not be considered registrable AW.


Yep yep... again, simplest way is to just put it in the car on your next visit - or talk to campsite and see if they will have a problem receiving and releasing your registered rifle - remember it's NOT a "transfer" you already own it.

Remember too, that anyone you talk to at the PD... is NOT a lawyer - they cannot give you legal advice. And as past experience has shown, you'll talk to 3 people and get 5 different answers - none of which will be right.

#34 Gary_Hungerford

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Posted August 19 2016 - 08:37 AM

BUT - he didn't "Dispose" of it - he sent it to himself, via an FFL for safekeeping... AND he did not "transfer" it - as ownership never changed.

Also - it IS an 'assault weapon' - BECAUSE IT *IS* registered.

Ownership never changed, and there was no 'disposal' - just a shipment through an agent. was and is always HIS property.


Peter:
No. You are not correct. Once the rifle went into the FFL's inventory, then shipped out of state, to another FFL, it could not be reclaimed, by the orginal owner, as a NY legal rifle. That rifle would have been recorded as having left the state, in an out of state sale. It cannot come back, except under the LEO exception.
Had he unnecessarily shipped it, through an FFL, for the purposes of an out of state competition, that would have been different.
Had he simply transported the rilfe, personally or had it shipped, to himself, that, also, would have been different. The outbound NY-based FFL, whoever that was, will have a valid sales/transfer receipt, showing it was sold/transferred, to the NC FFL.
Gary

#35 MUXMARINE

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Posted August 19 2016 - 08:38 AM

Go to the ffl in NC...pick up your rifle and travel back to NY with it in your vehicle under fopa...it's already registered in NY...very simple...
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#36 grifhunter

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Posted August 19 2016 - 09:55 AM

Go to the ffl in NC...pick up your rifle and travel back to NY with it in your vehicle under fopa...it's already registered in NY...very simple...


This.

#37 Parashooter

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Posted August 19 2016 - 12:16 PM

Peter:
No. You are not correct. Once the rifle went into the FFL's inventory, then shipped out of state, to another FFL, it could not be reclaimed, by the orginal owner, as a NY legal rifle. That rifle would have been recorded as having left the state, in an out of state sale. It cannot come back, except under the LEO exception.
Had he unnecessarily shipped it, through an FFL, for the purposes of an out of state competition, that would have been different.
Had he simply transported the rilfe, personally or had it shipped, to himself, that, also, would have been different. The outbound NY-based FFL, whoever that was, will have a valid sales/transfer receipt, showing it was sold/transferred, to the NC FFL.
Gary


Gar, you're manufacturing a sale that didn't happen - There was no sale, there was no transfer or ownership. The firearm NEVER was in the FFL's "Inventory" On his books yes, inventory no.

No matter how it got out of the state it can come back as it was and is registered to the same owner continuously.
Your logic means that when someone travels with a registered firearm in their car - for a hunting trip or competition, they can't put it in their car and come home - since it has "left the state".

There is no "sales/transfer receipt" since it WAS NOT SOLD OR TRANSFERRED - there is only a receipt for shipping a firearm from the sending FFL.
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#38 only7rounds

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Posted August 19 2016 - 01:13 PM

Peter:
No. You are not correct. Once the rifle went into the FFL's inventory, then shipped out of state, to another FFL, it could not be reclaimed, by the orginal owner, as a NY legal rifle. That rifle would have been recorded as having left the state, in an out of state sale. It cannot come back, except under the LEO exception.
Had he unnecessarily shipped it, through an FFL, for the purposes of an out of state competition, that would have been different.
Had he simply transported the rilfe, personally or had it shipped, to himself, that, also, would have been different. The outbound NY-based FFL, whoever that was, will have a valid sales/transfer receipt, showing it was sold/transferred, to the NC FFL.
Gary


You are making an assumption about what the FFL in NC. did, and we don't know that.
However, getting it back here is a different matter, because I don't think that ANY dealer is about to take a gun he receives in the mail and simply release it to someone without booking it and doing a NICS check. The exception being if the dealer had sent it back to the manufacturer for repair and was simply returning it to the known owner. So IF the OP had used Campsite to ship it out of State for some lawful purpose, POSSIBLY they could just return it to him. Otherwise probably not.

The bottom line here is that it has nothing to do with a "bailment" or anything else.

The NY dealer receives a gun from an out of state FFL. Legally he has to book it in and then only "sell" or if you prefer DISPOSE of it legally. At which point the gun could absolutely be seen as having been removed from the State and the Registry, and therefore can no longer be sold to anyone but LawEnforcement.

#39 Ransom

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Posted August 19 2016 - 01:21 PM

Thanks Parashooter, You are correct, I did ship it not transfer it to a NC FFL. I am already in NY and my rifle is at the NC FFL. I will call someone at the State Police and ask the question, I wonder if they will know the answer, this SAFE Law is mind blowing.

While you call ask them if you can still register a rifle

#40 Gary_Hungerford

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Posted August 19 2016 - 02:51 PM

Gar, you're manufacturing a sale that didn't happen - There was no sale, there was no transfer or ownership. The firearm NEVER was in the FFL's "Inventory" On his books yes, inventory no.

No matter how it got out of the state it can come back as it was and is registered to the same owner continuously.
Your logic means that when someone travels with a registered firearm in their car - for a hunting trip or competition, they can't put it in their car and come home - since it has "left the state".

There is no "sales/transfer receipt" since it WAS NOT SOLD OR TRANSFERRED - there is only a receipt for shipping a firearm from the sending FFL.


Peter:
Traveling, with a piece of hardware, out of state, then bringing it back, is not the issue, is not illegal and would not have made the rifle unreturnable to NY. I never said or suggested that.
Whenever an FFL transfers a piece of hardware, to another FFL, there is a bill of sale, which legitimizes/documents the transfer, between FFLs and confirms, for the receiving FFL's records, from whom s/he obtained it and under what circumstances. BATFE records, on audit of the sending FFL, will show that rifle as transferred, to another FFL, out of state, on a specific date and, on audit of the receiving FFL, show that it arrived, in NC, from NY, on a specific date.
While I agree, with many of the other posters, that much of the unSAFE Act violates federal law, in addition to being unconsitutional, it will, nonetheless, be the basis for the OP being arrested, then having to prove, if possible and very expensively, that the unSAEF Act is illegal, on its face, Even if s/he can do that, It will, also, subject that individual to at least a short term in jail, to "show the public" how well that law is "working."
If you want to continue counseling the OP to subject him/herself to that, I can't stop you, any more than I can stop the unSAFE Act from being unconstitutionally enforced.

Gary
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