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Get the latest facts on the new NY SAFE gun laws that effect you!

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Port Jeff Army/Navy Fights Cuomo

port jeff armynavy fights cuomo

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52 replies to this topic

#21 Parashooter

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Posted December 14 2015 - 09:52 AM

You've got a document and routine that's gotta be absolutely perfect. The document and related "book(s)" are subject to audit. And you've got to maintain this document for 20 years.

That's a fairly hefty burden.

I'm Chief Inspector for a FAA repair station that among other things, refills oxygen bottles for the airlines. The actual time to refill the bottle is maybe 10 minutes. Behind that, you have the nearly 200 page quality manual your shop has to abide by. The customer requirements we have to abide by. The process of checking it in. The Final Inspection. And the Federal requirements for shipping hazardous materials. The FAA and DOT hazardous materials paperwork we have to maintain a minimum of 2 to 3 years that is also subject to audit by the government. All for $35.

I feel the pain of a FFL. $10 ain't worth it.


Paul


There's also the risk of those bottle exploding during filling - Which can disassemble a human - We had a 17yo lose both arms here on LI some years back. I saw a bottle get dropped and become a missile, ricocheted around the shop, then went through a block wall, then another, then through a car.

Transferring a firearm isn't near as risky.

Now, I really think the plan behind that $10 was so that the Law-Abiding-Citizens would say "Oh, that's 'reasonable' " and not protest it, so it could pass. - and ... AND so that FFL's WOULD says "No way, can't do it" and NOT do private transfers...

I kinda think we might have been better off if all FFLs together said NO - then the people would get off their butts in force.


Suggestion for one of our FFL's - how about a video, show us the procedure and time involved... Maybe that would stop the whining.
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#22 Parashooter

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Posted December 14 2015 - 09:55 AM

OTOH - let me add one more thing to Lynyrd's comment - you said OXYGEN bottles - I was referring to lowly SCUBA (compressed AIR)

Oxygen bottles not only have the risks I was mentioning, but the fact that it's Oxygen on top of that - pop a tank around some ignition/fuel source and wow..... Makes $35 seem cheap.
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#23 mills613

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Posted December 14 2015 - 09:56 AM

The way I read the other thread was that the OP went in to do a long gun transfer. Should be $10 per person, right? Sounds like the person receiving the gun was charged an additional $25 fee, which is their normal fee for a long gun transfer.

So if you do a face to face transfer at an ffl, each party pays the $10 fee, but then the person receiving the gun has to then pay an additional ffl transfer fee?

#24 Aquabach

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Posted December 14 2015 - 10:12 AM

OTOH - let me add one more thing to Lynyrd's comment - you said OXYGEN bottles - I was referring to lowly SCUBA (compressed AIR)

Oxygen bottles not only have the risks I was mentioning, but the fact that it's Oxygen on top of that - pop a tank around some ignition/fuel source and wow..... Makes $35 seem cheap.

Scuba tanks explode didn't you know that?
I saw it in Jaws. LOL

We had a tank explode in our fill station. It was like a bomb.That's why our tank is covered in 1/4 inch plate so if a tank explodes the force goes up. That's why you don't lean your head over the fill tank either.
It took out the ceiling tiles 10 feet over the tank and dispersed all the wate water out of the tank. What a mess.

The tanks that are of concern were made by Luxfer and also sold under a few different names) using an aluminum alloy called 6351 that cracked. Usually in the neck.
They stopped using that alloy in 1988.
Most shops I know will not fill them even if they pass inspection.
It's not worth the risk.
Most tanks are very safe to fill because they have burst discs in the valve which will go before the metal of the tank fails. Scares the crap out of you when it happens too.
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#25 firemanvin

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Posted December 14 2015 - 11:02 AM

We the people have become complacent because some of us can throw money at most of the problems cause by NYS gun laws.

Business owners with money can get a less restrictive and less burdensome version of concealed carry.

Someone that has ten or twenty grand burning a hole in their pocket can hire a good lawyer that can wiggle self protection proper cause.

With that said, does it really matter if an FFL charges $10 or $50?

These people are not vocal activists, are complacent, and are satisfied with the way things are because they can "buy" what they want. Sort of like a FUD.

If the money greased wheels came to a grinding halt (for example if every FFL in NYS refused to do a transfer because they were bound to a $10 fee) then all the money in the world would not get people what they want just because they can afford it. Then all the complacent carry permit holders and FUDS would go nuts the next time they wanted to do a transfer. They would be forced to complain and then the complaining few would become the complaining many.

#26 gripper

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Posted December 14 2015 - 11:32 AM

dislike andy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,18 days and Preet will be at the plate swinging his bat again. I have not been to pjan not really close to them but the fee sound reasonable to me just my .02

#27 Captain Will

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Posted December 14 2015 - 12:05 PM

Like I said in the other thread, I think the OP probably confused (transposed) the cost of the two fees.

If any FFL is charging more than $10, they are breaking the law. Period. They aren't "fighting Cuomo" or any other such nonsense, they are profiting at the expense of the OTHER FFLs who follow the law. They put thatr $10 figure in there to remove the objections of gun advocates who would decry that the cost of the background check created a barrier to commerce. It's also why they made the registration free- for now. I wouldn't count on it staying that way in another three years when registrants have to "recertify" their guns- look how much a pistol license costs here now.

I'm sure if Cuomo had his way it would cost $250, with at least 90 percent of that going into some sort of discretionary fund that could be used to further erode our rights or further his political agenda.

I personally cannot wait until January 02, 2016.

#28 Barnslayer

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Posted December 14 2015 - 12:13 PM

Working for free (when not voluntary/charity) is slavery.
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#29 TJ Ironhorse

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Posted December 14 2015 - 12:27 PM

The way I read the other thread was that the OP went in to do a long gun transfer. Should be $10 per person, right? Sounds like the person receiving the gun was charged an additional $25 fee, which is their normal fee for a long gun transfer.

So if you do a face to face transfer at an ffl, each party pays the $10 fee, but then the person receiving the gun has to then pay an additional ffl transfer fee?

Great question. Anyone have an answer?

#30 zzrguy

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Posted December 14 2015 - 01:21 PM

Nice people there and they are trying to make a living wish they had a better selection of guns but have its new to them and the out lay for a big inventory in huge. but they have done right by me so far so I will keep using them. The guy who complained could always go to LISC or TnT :crazy
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#31 Mossy930spx

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Posted December 14 2015 - 01:28 PM

I was there doing an ammo transfer today. Shady guy in a grey hooded sweatshirt (white guy) 5'6" strong build followed me to my car. Kept a good distance he was trying to close the gap a few times with the old got a cigarette/money/can I have a ride. Said he's Jesus Christ and showed me a rock saying it was his 2,000 year old petrified penis. He wandered off.... was getting to the point I thought I was gonna have to wreck his face. Kept walking around my car inspecting it. Seems to be a local at the homeless shelter.
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#32 bberetta1

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Posted December 14 2015 - 01:41 PM

I was there doing an ammo transfer today. Shady guy in a grey hooded sweatshirt (white guy) 5'6" strong build followed me to my car. Kept a good distance he was trying to close the gap a few times with the old got a cigarette/money/can I have a ride. Said he's Jesus Christ and showed me a rock saying it was his 2,000 year old petrified penis. He wandered off.... was getting to the point I thought I was gonna have to wreck his face. Kept walking around my car inspecting it. Seems to be a local at the homeless shelter.

Missed dropkick opportunity IMHO.

#33 Mossy930spx

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Posted December 14 2015 - 01:57 PM

totally.
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#34 staghorn

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Posted December 14 2015 - 01:58 PM

has anyone ever thought that the $10.00 transfer fee was intentional? to make it tough for shops to make money on transfers, shops that charge more will either be forced to stop transfers by the state for "over charging" or just stop transfers eventually due to the profit loss.
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#35 Incognito

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Posted December 14 2015 - 03:01 PM

I used him for a transfer and would recommend him for a transfer.

If the law is $10 for a private transfer, then he should charge $10. This is no different than getting your car inspected for a fee set by the state. (BTW, I do not agree with the set fee or lots of other provisions of the SAFE Act.)

Unfortunately, he may then need to charge more for his other services and products which will subsidize the regulated fee. He may need to charge a handling, shipping or storage fee for internet or other FFL to FFL transactions. So be it if the other fees plus the $10 "coincidentally" add up to what he is currently charging.

Let's also not forget that the transfer brings you into his store which gives you the opportunity to see and buy his other products. Retail stores run loss leaders all the time. It is not bad business if the mix is right.
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#36 Captain Will

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Posted December 14 2015 - 03:27 PM

has anyone ever thought that the $10.00 transfer fee was intentional? to make it tough for shops to make money on transfers, shops that charge more will either be forced to stop transfers by the state for "over charging" or just stop transfers eventually due to the profit loss.

The $10 was intentional, but not to force shops out of business- nobody is going out of business doing a process that takes 15 minutes and can be done in between other things, a few times a day. The limit was set at $10 to prevent objection and get the bill passed. It's not "socialism" and nobody is FORCING any shops to do it for "free", or even at all. IMNO a smart shop will heed the $10, and do transfers- because I think you need to do transfers in order tro stay competitive, And they can still whack you with $100 fee for the actual TRANSFER if they want, it's the background check that's regulated by the State.

Why can't they charge $500 for a hunting license? I mean, it takes time and all, seems kinda unfair they can't charge whatever they want for it. I mean, applying the logic I see used above.

#37 Incognito

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Posted December 14 2015 - 03:36 PM

...they can still whack you with $100 fee for the actual TRANSFER if they want, it's the background check that's regulated by the State.


I don't think that is what is says - see post 13.
4. A dealer may require that any sale or transfer conducted pursuant
to this section be subject to a fee of not to exceed ten dollars per
transaction.

But can he charge $90 for a gun cleaning? You know, so he can read the serial numbers.

#38 Destro

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Posted December 14 2015 - 03:36 PM

I still pay 10 bucks for a private transfer and 20 for a long gun.

True story: AOS once quoted me $100 transfer fee for a Kel Tec Sub2000. "For that, a hundred bucks, buddy" was the exact quote. Guess where I never shopped again.

Edited by Destro, December 14 2015 - 04:30 PM.

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#39 2edgesword

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Posted December 14 2015 - 03:50 PM

I personally cannot wait until January 02, 2016.


What did I miss? What's happening on January 02, 2016?

#40 bberetta1

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Posted December 14 2015 - 03:52 PM

What did I miss? What's happening on January 02, 2016?

Cuomo's alleged indictment.
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