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Get the latest facts on the new NY SAFE gun laws that effect you!

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Port Jeff Army/Navy Fights Cuomo

port jeff armynavy fights cuomo

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52 replies to this topic

#1 Aquabach

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Posted December 14 2015 - 07:37 AM

You have to open the thread to know what's in it.

Another thread accused PJAN of overcharging for transfers. $35.
Guess the OP of that thread feels it should be $10 like the politicians say it should.

So my question is, would it be better that we have the socialism of price fixing and setting an artificially low price that would surely cause some, perhaps many FFLs, to no longer do transfers?
Or should we allow the to charge what they think is fair and we can choose which FFL to use?
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#2 Phoenix69

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Posted December 14 2015 - 07:49 AM

I think you answered your own question.

#3 Habsfan

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Posted December 14 2015 - 07:53 AM

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Too much discussion. PJAN is a great local business and I prefer using them. If the other guy does not like using them, move on!

Nuff said!
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#4 Aquabach

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Posted December 14 2015 - 07:54 AM

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Too much discussion. PJAN is a great local business and I prefer using them. If the other guy does not like using them, move on!

Nuff said!

Huh?
If you don't like a store you should go elsewhere?
What kind of crazy talk is that?
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#5 lynyrd

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Posted December 14 2015 - 07:54 AM

Since this involves a right, the price of this crap should be paid for by "the people" of New York, since politicians and the media like to say most support this.

Every time an FFL accesses NICS for a private transfer New York automatically and immediately transfers money into the FFL's account.

Come up with a price that is reasonable for a person holding a piece of paper for 20 years and go with it.

Let's see how quick they want to drop this.

Paul

Edited by lynyrd, December 14 2015 - 07:55 AM.

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#6 ChiefSailer

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Posted December 14 2015 - 08:28 AM

what is the cost to the FFL for performing transfers and background checks?
I'm not complaining about the fee. I'm just curious.

btw I went to Jerry's on Saturday to pick up 2 lowers I had delivered there.
$15 per lower +tax is what he charged.
+1 Jerry's
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#7 Blade21

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Posted December 14 2015 - 08:28 AM

$10 bucks? This is NY. Nothing is cheap or free here.
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#8 lynyrd

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Posted December 14 2015 - 08:44 AM

You've got a document and routine that's gotta be absolutely perfect. The document and related "book(s)" are subject to audit. And you've got to maintain this document for 20 years.

That's a fairly hefty burden.

I'm Chief Inspector for a FAA repair station that among other things, refills oxygen bottles for the airlines. The actual time to refill the bottle is maybe 10 minutes. Behind that, you have the nearly 200 page quality manual your shop has to abide by. The customer requirements we have to abide by. The process of checking it in. The Final Inspection. And the Federal requirements for shipping hazardous materials. The FAA and DOT hazardous materials paperwork we have to maintain a minimum of 2 to 3 years that is also subject to audit by the government. All for $35.

I feel the pain of a FFL. $10 ain't worth it.


Paul

what is the cost to the FFL for performing transfers and background checks?
I'm not complaining about the fee. I'm just curious.

btw I went to Jerry's on Saturday to pick up 2 lowers I had delivered there.
$15 per lower +tax is what he charged.
+1 Jerry's


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#9 citypaul1

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Posted December 14 2015 - 08:53 AM

I know what the ffl has to do and I know the unsafe act is bull and I am not bad mouthing any ffl, but the ten dollar pp transfer fee is the law until hopefully it's changed. So you are saying it is ok for a few ffls to obey the law while others don't?

Edited by citypaul1, December 14 2015 - 09:00 AM.

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#10 Autoinfo07

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Posted December 14 2015 - 09:05 AM

I know what the ffl has to do and I know the unsafe act is bull and I am not bad mouthing any ffl, but the ten dollar pp transfer fee is the law until hopefully it's changed. So you are saying it is ok for a few ffls to obey the law while others don't?

Can you cite the statute Ex: Penal Law 400.XXXX

Edited by Autoinfo07, December 14 2015 - 09:05 AM.


#11 SteveT

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Posted December 14 2015 - 09:09 AM

I think you answered your own question.


This.

#12 citypaul1

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Posted December 14 2015 - 09:10 AM




IV. PRIVATE SALES

The Safe Act extended the requirement of a NICS check (National Instant Criminal Background Check System), which was previously limited to commercial weapons sales, to private sales through a new Article 39-DDD of the General Business Law (GBL).
1. General Business Law Article 39-DDD
GBL Article 39- DDD requires that all private sales of firearms, rifles or shotguns be conducted through a licensed importer, manufacturer or dealer. Before any private sales may be made, a NICS check must be conducted by a dealer on the purchaser. While a dealer is not required to facilitate a private sale, if a dealer chooses to do so, he or she must create and maintain records relating to private sales to prove that the background checks were conducted. These records may be inspected by a police officer and are not subject to public disclosure under the FOIL provisions. The Safe Act provides that a dealer may charge up to $10 for facilitating these private transactions.
2. Immediate Family Exemption
There is an exception to the requirement of a background check for transfers of weapons between immediate family members. The term “immediate family members” is limited by statute to:

• Spouses

• Domestic Partners

• Children

• Step-children

3. Potential Charges

Edited by citypaul1, December 14 2015 - 09:11 AM.

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#13 Autoinfo07

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Posted December 14 2015 - 09:22 AM

I don't think this General Business law applies?

§ 898. Private sale or disposal of firearms, rifles and shotguns. 1.
In addition to any other requirements pursuant to state and federal law,
all sales, exchanges or disposals of firearms, rifles or shotguns shall
be conducted in accordance with this section unless such sale, exchange
or disposal is conducted by a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer
or licensed dealer, as those terms are defined in 18 USC § 922, when
such sale, exchange or disposal is conducted pursuant to that person's
federal firearms license or such sale, exchange or disposal is between
members of an immediate family. For purposes of this section, "immediate
family" shall mean spouses, domestic partners, children and
step-children.
2. Before any sale, exchange or disposal pursuant to this article, a
national instant criminal background check must be completed by a dealer
who consents to conduct such check, and upon completion of such
background check, shall complete a document, the form of which shall be
approved by the superintendent of state police, that identifies and
confirms that such check was performed.
3. All dealers shall maintain a record of such transactions conducted
pursuant to this section and such record shall be maintained on the
premises mentioned and described in the license and shall be open at all
reasonable hours for inspection by any peace officer, acting pursuant to
his or her special duties, or police officer.
4. A dealer may require that any sale or transfer conducted pursuant
to this section be subject to a fee of not to exceed ten dollars per
transaction.
5. Any record produced pursuant to this section and any transmission
thereof to any government agency shall not be considered a public record
for purposes of article six of the public officers law.
6. Any person who knowingly violates the provisions of this article
shall be guilty of a class A misdemeanor punishable as provided for in
the penal law.

#14 brirodg

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Posted December 14 2015 - 09:24 AM

This is civil disobedience. If they are breaking an unjust law I support them.

The alternative is that they just stop doing transfers. While the state thinks it can dictate a price, they absolutely cannot force them to perform a service. If a business is faced with the decision to lose money on a service or no longer offer that service, guess which one they will choose?
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#15 E

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Posted December 14 2015 - 09:26 AM

Don't like it move on. It's NYS fault and not theirs. Can't make money then no more store, as simple as that
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#16 Autoinfo07

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Posted December 14 2015 - 09:26 AM

Article 39-DDD - PRIVATE SALE OR DISPOSAL OF FIREARMS, RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS
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#17 Aquabach

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Posted December 14 2015 - 09:28 AM

I know what the ffl has to do and I know the unsafe act is bull and I am not bad mouthing any ffl, but the ten dollar pp transfer fee is the law until hopefully it's changed. So you are saying it is ok for a few ffls to obey the law while others don't?

I'm saying the law is Bull. This fee was put in for 2 reasons. To make people think," Oh it's no big deal, it's only $10"
and the more insidious reason, to make transfers a PITA and FFLS stop doing them.
Just like the antis always talk about ammunition taxes to make it prohibitive to shoot firearms.
Anger over a business that's being screwed almost as much as citizens is a poor direction for it.

Now let's look at the portion of the law you quoted.
This goes for private transactions right?
If you ordered it from another company, or an auction it's not a private transaction is it?
Even if you have bought it from some guy in Pennsylvania and he used an FFL to ship, as he must, it's not really a private transfer anymore is it?
So the $10 fee in the law doesn't apply or at the very least can be argued that it does not apply.

Also, the way the law is written and how the NICS system is set up are incompatible.
The dealer actually is not facilitating a transfer as far at the Feds are concerned. He's taking the fiream in, logging it in to his books and then "selling" it to you as far as they are concerned.
This law besides being a crap law, doesn't even work the way they say it should.
Best example is the ammunition background check. it was required. But NICS doesn't allow that. So what did the Nazis in Albany do?
Okay, we'll just forget about that for now because it's inconvenient for us.

Just another example of what a turd this law is

Edited by Aquabach, December 14 2015 - 09:36 AM.

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#18 WHDPC113

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Posted December 14 2015 - 09:33 AM

IV. PRIVATE SALES

The Safe Act extended the requirement of a NICS check (National Instant Criminal Background Check System), which was previously limited to commercial weapons sales, to private sales through a new Article 39-DDD of the General Business Law (GBL).
1. General Business Law Article 39-DDD
GBL Article 39- DDD requires that all private sales of firearms, rifles or shotguns be conducted through a licensed importer, manufacturer or dealer. Before any private sales may be made, a NICS check must be conducted by a dealer on the purchaser. While a dealer is not required to facilitate a private sale, if a dealer chooses to do so, he or she must create and maintain records relating to private sales to prove that the background checks were conducted. These records may be inspected by a police officer and are not subject to public disclosure under the FOIL provisions. The Safe Act provides that a dealer may charge up to $10 for facilitating these private transactions.
2. Immediate Family Exemption
There is an exception to the requirement of a background check for transfers of weapons between immediate family members. The term “immediate family members” is limited by statute to:

• Spouses

• Domestic Partners

• Children

• Step-children

3. Potential Charges

But it has no 'teeth' - by design, or one of the many things left out in haste when the unSAFE act was passed in the dark of night? When LSG were first charging $10 + $50 administrative fee, I complained to my legislator and the NYSP units administering the act, and they pointed out that while an FFL may be in violation of the law, since no penalty for breaking that law is specified they can do so with impunity, and there is nothing PD or any other agency can do about it. Does NYS care about the 'overcharges'? IMHO, part of this flawed law was intended to make it difficult and expensive to buy and sell firearms. It's working....... I agree, if the state wants this 'to improve public safety' they should be reimbursing the FFL for the checks at fair market rate, so the cost is borne by 'the people who are feeling more safe' [sarcasm] and not by the sportsmen who are no threat to them. On the other hand, pre-unSAFE we were always able to purchase online and have a firearm shipped to an FFL. What was the 'market' fee for that transaction then? The process to receive a firearm through an FFL has not changed; it's only for the PRIVATE transfers, which were never required. To the FFL, there's little difference - they're processing the paperwork on a sale that is not their own (though I hear that there are complications if the buyer fails the check, or worse yet if the buyer and seller both fail the check). Time is money. The FFL is entitled to fair compensation. Forcing the individuals, rather than the state to bear the cost is a selective and unfair (not that they care) tax on the individuals. Yes, as suggested by a another poster, the state should pick up the tab. But - if this drives any FFL/LGS out of business, or makes it more expensive for all gun owners, then the unSAFE is working.............

Edited by WHDPC113, December 14 2015 - 09:36 AM.

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#19 Autoinfo07

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Posted December 14 2015 - 09:37 AM

I have gone through NICS checks in several Long Island FFL's and never once asked of their fee, as I felt they are performing a service for me and their is a certain amount of accountability on them to do so. They didn't make the laws, dont shoot the messenger.
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#20 citypaul1

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Posted December 14 2015 - 09:44 AM

I agree with what you are saying. I thought you were talking about "in state" person to person transfers.
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