59 replies to this topic

[viper720]

nice flowchart.
what about those who are red/green colorblind?


Dov

They are SOL
I plan to clean it up when everything checks out. I'll change the colors.

[CheeseSammich]

Using SAFE act terminology. Much like "assault weapon" being a key word that is entirely imaginary.

A muzzle break doesn't exist. There was also a lawsuit against this portion of the Safe Act, due to the misspelling. [Skretny Decision] That portion of the Safe Act was overturned.
http://www.nytimes.c...uling.html?_r=0

[viper720]

A muzzle break doesn't exist. There was also a lawsuit against this portion of the Safe Act, due to the misspelling. [Skretny Decision] That portion of the Safe Act was overturned.
http://www.nytimes.c...uling.html?_r=0

touché

[Ballistic]

It gets exempted if it is a fixed magazine that can't be removed. The max is 10 rounds.
I think the 5 rounds has to do with amount loaded during hunting. I don't remember for sure.

Well I do, and the 5 round exemption for being an AW disqualifier (even detachable,) is located in the statute I quoted earlier in the thread.

5 rounds you're thinking of is max capacity for hunting. Different issue

[fenucho]

As per NY Penal Code Article 265.00 sub 22 (a)(g)(ii) and (iii)
"(g) provided, however, that such term does not include... (ii) a semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than five rounds of ammunition; (iii) a semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine; or...."

Well I do, and the 5 round exemption for being an AW disqualifier (even detachable,) is located in the statute I quoted earlier in the thread.

5 rounds you're thinking of is max capacity for hunting. Different issue

This one is driving me crazy. Anyone know of such a semi-auto like this?


OP- how's the chart going?

[Ballistic]

As per NY Penal Code Article 265.00 sub 22 (a)(g)(ii) and (iii)
"(g) provided, however, that such term does not include... (ii) a semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than five rounds of ammunition; (iii) a semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine; or...."

This one is driving me crazy. Anyone know of such a semi-auto like this?

Yes, I mentioned it back in post #29 - Browning BAR series uses small detachable magazines held in with hinged floor plates.

Shotguns however, I'm unaware of.

[viper720]

As per NY Penal Code Article 265.00 sub 22 (a)(g)(ii) and (iii)
"(g) provided, however, that such term does not include... (ii) a semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than five rounds of ammunition; (iii) a semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine; or...."




This one is driving me crazy. Anyone know of such a semi-auto like this?


OP- how's the chart going?

Haven't touched the chart, been swamped with work. Might finish it up on monday.

[grifhunter]

This chart is for post-SAFE transfers. If I'm not mistaken (and I could very well be mistaken) you receive a 30-day period from first contact following discovery that you are in possession of a non-compliant firearm to register, provided that you were in possession of it before SAFE and it was compliant with the previous law.

You are very mistaken. There is no 30 day grace period, or first time pass if you are caught with an AW.
The provision that you refer to contains a "knowingly" provision, and the only folks who will get the pass will be people who live with someone else who owns an AW and dies, and the survivor comes into possession unaware of the nature of the weapon or even its existence. It may also apply to inadvertent movement of an AW into the state such as a traveler or out of state person moving into the state.

No ordinary NY Joe will likely get the grace period and if folks are gambling that they are going to be the first, it may be a very expensive lesson best left to the "other guy".

[viper720]

You are very mistaken. There is no 30 day grace period, or first time pass if you are caught with an AW.
The provision that you refer to contains a "knowingly" provision, and the only folks who will get the pass will be people who live with someone else who owns an AW and dies, and the survivor comes into possession unaware of the nature of the weapon or even its existence. It may also apply to inadvertent movement of an AW into the state such as a traveler or out of state person moving into the state.

No ordinary NY Joe will likely get the grace period and if folks are gambling that they are going to be the first, it may be a very expensive lesson best left to the "other guy".

Like I said in the following post, one can not tell how well claiming ignorance will work, we haven't seen the issue come up yet. The provision exists and in theory there's no reason it couldn't work if the nature of the discovery points towards ignorance over concealment. Obviously the whole issue is particularly arbitrary and would be left to the discretion of the cop, judge and DA. Understand that I was not appealing to practicality when discussing that, just brainstorming hypos.

[grifhunter]

Like I said in the following post, one can not tell how well claiming ignorance will work, we haven't seen the issue come up yet. The provision exists and in theory there's no reason it couldn't work if the nature of the discovery points towards ignorance over concealment. Obviously the whole issue is particularly arbitrary and would be left to the discretion of the cop, judge and DA. Understand that I was not appealing to practicality when discussing that, just brainstorming hypos.

Some things are worth speculating on in the legal field. If the AW is being charged in the setting where the ONLY offense is possessing the rifle, then I can see DA's exercising some discretion, but I still think its a long shot. But if the AW came to the attention of the police through an accidental discharge, menacing, gun theft, domestic incident, or raid following some sort of crime, then I can guarantee you than anyone caught in possession of an unregistered AW will be taking the felony rap, "knowingly" or not.

[fenucho]

Yes, I mentioned it back in post #29 - Browning BAR series uses small detachable magazines held in with hinged floor plates.

Shotguns however, I'm unaware of.

Thanks, when I was looking up semi-autos, I saw they made 10 rnd mags for the BAR. I didn't know about the hinge plate version. The flow chart is a good project. Especially if it includes all the exceptions we come up with.

[Ballistic]

Thanks, when I was looking up semi-autos, I saw they made 10 rnd mags for the BAR. I didn't know about the hinge plate version.

Yeah, some models such as the Hog Hunter don't have the plate and can take larger magazine. Those obviously are not exempt.

[viper720]

Some things are worth speculating on in the legal field. If the AW is being charged in the setting where the ONLY offense is possessing the rifle, then I can see DA's exercising some discretion, but I still think its a long shot. But if the AW came to the attention of the police through an accidental discharge, menacing, gun theft, domestic incident, or raid following some sort of crime, then I can guarantee you than anyone caught in possession of an unregistered AW will be taking the felony rap, "knowingly" or not.

I agree 100%. But at that point possession of an AW is probably not going to be the most pressing matter on the perpetrator's list.

[viper720]

This should be the final edit. http://puu.sh/idUZf.jpg

[fenucho]

A couple of things:

1. In the first big box, aren't all the things we're talking about explosive projectile weapons? How is that non-compliant?

2. Following the 50 year old trail, it is only compliant if registered.

3. You need to add a "registered" or "not registered" somewhere in the stream for final compliant or not.

4. If you really want it to be accurate, quote the penal code or safe act section that confirms the end of trail.

Are these NYS penal code/safe act terms and definitions, or are you paraphrasing? Good luck.

[Walker1847]

Simplified NY unSAFE Act Compliance Flowchart:

[viper720]

A couple of things:

1. In the first big box, aren't all the things we're talking about explosive projectile weapons? How is that non-compliant?

2. Following the 50 year old trail, it is only compliant if registered.

3. You need to add a "registered" or "not registered" somewhere in the stream for final compliant or not.

4. If you really want it to be accurate, quote the penal code or safe act section that confirms the end of trail.

Are these NYS penal code/safe act terms and definitions, or are you paraphrasing? Good luck.

1. "explosive projectile" as in ballistic rounds where the projectile itself is an explosive, i.e. grenades, rockets, PGU-13/B rounds, etc.
2. Yes.
3. If I'm not mistaken only pre-SAFE AWs need to be registered as post-SAFE AWs are banned. I left out a 'registered' section because the chart is for post-safe firearms.
4. Will definitely do that but I need a rainy day for that.
Thanks for the input!

[fenucho]

1-2 - Got it.

3. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have no idea that the safe act exists or what it means.

You'd be surprised at how many hunters think all AR's are full auto, and why do you need one to hunt. (one is too many)

I know people that have rifles in there safes that haven't been opened in over 5 years because they're old and don't care about shooting anymore.
(pisses me off because the old Geezer won't open it up to show me what he's got , and I know he's got some OLD AR's)

Somewhere in the rifle line after "Does it have any of...", "No - Compliant" also covers Post SA purchases and lets them know what they can't add.
"Yes" could be split into "registered - compliant and "No" - not compliant.
Or, at least a box that asked acquired before/after SA for those moving into NY from a free state not knowing about the SA.

4. And a 6 pack or 2

[viper720]

Update

Rainy day has arrived and appropriate levels of alcohol have been consumed.

- Rearranged some things, improved some visual issues, bolded text
- Referenced penal sections for everything
- Added "pre safe registration exemptions not included" disclaimer
- Converted to PDF for easier reading

Preview:

[Barnslayer]

This doesn't look right.