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Get the latest facts on the new NY SAFE gun laws that effect you!

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Trump Executive Order Designating "Militia" Rifles

trump executive order militia awb

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46 replies to this topic

#21 Skywalker

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Posted February 26 2017 - 08:11 AM

Guru,

 

Sounds like you lean toward being a Federalist.   Me too, actually.   My driver's license, my marriage license are recognized in all 50.  No-one ever worries about driving across state lines.  I think most of us think of ourselves as Americans first, not as New Yorkers.  

 

But is also true that for centuries there have been "weapons laws" regulating who could be armed and where.  In Middle Age Europe, sword length was regulated.  If you sword was too long, the local sheriff would cut off the required amount.  The military salute is a vestige of showing you were unarmed. In the American Old West, many towns required you to check your weapon with the sheriff.  Machine guns are heavily regulated.  s

 

I guess I'm just asking for an organized approach based on facts, not a scatter shot approach.  The Feds have an opportunity right now.  Don't screw it up.   



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#22 Ancap

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Posted February 26 2017 - 08:42 AM

If your a federalist, don't bitch about restrictions to the 2nd amendment...Hamilton gave you the government you deserve

#23 Skywalker

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Posted February 26 2017 - 09:03 AM

While we are on the subject of the Founding Father's intent, I would like to point out that they were greatly concerned about the potential power of large corporations vs the regular citizen.  One of my favorite presidents, Teddy R, broke up the trusts because he correctly viewed them as threat to the safety and security of every day Americans.  They were a threat to liberty.  

 

That is one of my main issue with today's government, local and federal.  Wholly owned and paid for by oligarchs.  They skillfully manipulate the rest of us to fight over bullshit, while they plunder.  So we fight about abortion, gay marriage, legal pot, etc while they steal all the value of our labor.  The economic shit hole that we now live in was purposeful.  Everyone is working harder for less.  Stress, dissatisfaction, frustration,fear, anger  are the friends of the oligarchs. 

 

Our gun rights get pulled into this game.  No one really believes that legal ownership of firearms is an issue.  But each side of the political spectrum generates big bucks from the "fight". 

 

Judge Bork (for you younger guys, nominated by Reagan for supreme court and blocked by dems) famously said that no politician wanted Roe v Wade overturned because it was too good for the politicians ( something to that effect).  

 

Gun rights fall into the same slime pit.


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#24 Ancap

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Posted February 26 2017 - 02:22 PM

While we are on the subject of the Founding Father's intent, I would like to point out that they were greatly concerned about the potential power of large corporations vs the regular citizen.  One of my favorite presidents, Teddy R, broke up the trusts because he correctly viewed them as threat to the safety and security of every day Americans.  They were a threat to liberty.  
 
That is one of my main issue with today's government, local and federal.  Wholly owned and paid for by oligarchs.  They skillfully manipulate the rest of us to fight over poop, while they plunder.  So we fight about abortion, gay marriage, legal pot, etc while they steal all the value of our labor.  The economic **** hole that we now live in was purposeful.  Everyone is working harder for less.  Stress, dissatisfaction, frustration,fear, anger  are the friends of the oligarchs. 
 
Our gun rights get pulled into this game.  No one really believes that legal ownership of firearms is an issue.  But each side of the political spectrum generates big bucks from the "fight". 
 
Judge Bork (for you younger guys, nominated by Reagan for supreme court and blocked by dems) famously said that no politician wanted Roe v Wade overturned because it was too good for the politicians ( something to that effect).  
 
Gun rights fall into the same slime pit.


Founding Fathers were not monolithic...while many fought for Liberty (mostly anti-federalists, Jeffersonians,). Many had a thirst for power worse then King George (mostly federalists, Hamiltonians)

The only concern hey had was regarding Fascism/corporatism not so much laissez Faire free market capitalism. In a true free market there are no trusts or monopolies. Monopolies are created by government Intervention

Teddy Roosevelt was a horrible president. He kicked off the progressive era of big government

#25 Skywalker

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Posted February 26 2017 - 07:49 PM

I agree they were not monolithic.  

 

I don't agree with your contention that monopolies are created by government intervention.  The late 1800s are proof.


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#26 Steyr AUG man

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Posted February 26 2017 - 07:56 PM

I agree they were not monolithic.  

 

I don't agree with your contention that monopolies are created by government intervention.  The late 1800s are proof.

 

I concur. Although the government created monopolies like the Bell System and the Postal Service, they broke up more monopolies than they created.



#27 Skywalker

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Posted February 26 2017 - 08:22 PM

Unfettered capitalism leads to monopolies.   The powerful game the system, own the system.  

 

I'm opposed to national banks, big banks, multinational corporations that have no allegiance to country, corporations that benefit from the greatness of our country but avoid paying their fair share as wages.  

 

I miss my local hardware store.  You know the type.  Dusty, boxes of stuff everywhere, things were found in the basement when you couldn't find it on the shelf.  You knew the old guy.  They are gone.  Big box put them out of business.  Ruined main streets all over the country.  People went from owning mom and pop shops to working for low wages.  

 

We rightly fight for our right to bear arms.  But I believe we are caught up in a much larger game and we are used as pawns for our votes.

 

BTW, had a great day at the range with my daughter today, speaking of rights.  Brought a 22 SAA, 22 S&W model 41, M1 carbine, Sako 222.  Wind picked up, got a little cold, but had a blast, as always.



#28 Ancap

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Posted February 26 2017 - 08:32 PM

I agree they were not monolithic.  
 
I don't agree with your contention that monopolies are created by government intervention.  The late 1800s are proof.


Don't believe the lies you learned in public school. Any free market economist will tell you monopolies don't exist without government intervention. It's impossible for a business to dominate a industry and charge high prices because it opens opportunities for the competition to take advantage of the inefficiencies of big businesses and sell at a lower price

Just look at Dow Chemical...European monopoly cartels tried to implement predatory pricing on Bromine to put Dow Chemical out of business.

Herbert Dow knew that they were selling the chemical for less then production cost, so he bought the chemicals from the cartels himself since it was cheaper and turned around and sold it at a profit

#29 Skywalker

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Posted February 26 2017 - 08:38 PM

Ok, I'll think this through as you suggest.

 

But my hardware store examples seems to support my position.  Home Depot can buy in huge bulk at reduced prices.  If the little guy could compete, why did we lose our mom and pop stores?  Isn't large purchasing power an advantage?



#30 Ancap

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Posted February 26 2017 - 09:04 PM

Ok, I'll think this through as you suggest.

But my hardware store examples seems to support my position. Home Depot can buy in huge bulk at reduced prices. If the little guy could compete, why did we lose our mom and pop stores? Isn't large purchasing power an advantage?


Home Depot is not an example of a monopoly or predatory pricing

Small business fail because they fail to master the division of labor that gives them an advantage on big businesses such as Home Depot. Think of the stores that did survive. They offer something Home Depot doesn't offer. Whether they specialize in plumbing, cheaper quality products, better grade tools, etc...

#31 mrprovy

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Posted February 26 2017 - 09:39 PM

Here's an example of government helping create a monopoly: Crookhaven town's refusal to permit Verizon to run lines for fios, essentially giving Cablevision a monopoly on wired internet within the town
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#32 Steyr AUG man

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Posted February 26 2017 - 11:38 PM

That's why cable and every utility should be municipally run.
When My uncle died last year in west Hempstead, he left a water bill that hadn't been paid in a year. It was for around $100. We called the district to see if anymore was owed. She said that was it. We asked if it was $100 for a year of water, it was correct.

I asked why so cheap, she said they were government owned, and that's why they had cheap rates. She said it's not run for a profit, but most other districts are private, and much more expensive.
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#33 Steyr AUG man

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Posted February 26 2017 - 11:57 PM

Here's an example of government helping create a monopoly: Crookhaven town's refusal to permit Verizon to run lines for fios, essentially giving Cablevision a monopoly on wired internet within the town


Everyone knows that home depot put out the mom and pop stores with their monopolistic practices. They put out Pergament, Rickles, and more I don't remember. I knew two hardware men, one in Oceanside, one in Franklin square who went out of business in the 1990s and they both blamed Home Depot. They couldn't compete with their cheaper costs of inventory purchasing that depot had because of their market share and size. They put everyone else out of business, then their service got crappy, their prices weren't that great, they went from 24 hours to 6-9. And now the stores are filthy, and poorly staffed. Their status as a monopoly resulted in crappy service to the consumer.

#34 Lamont

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Posted March 01 2017 - 03:35 PM

I don't have much faith in this being true. If it is, go for it President Orange!

 

Piss off Albany and City Hall...again! I want to swim in the ocean of "progressive" tears.

 

Serious note, i'd rather have another SC pick over this, but this will suffice...for now.



#35 jahilton1

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Posted March 01 2017 - 10:08 PM

Not sure I like caliber designation Ar15 can also be chambered in 7.62 Nato .308 Winchester.

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#36 set2374

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Posted March 02 2017 - 12:53 PM

I would be worried that it would concede that the POTUS could decide what types of guns are and are not constitutionally protected. In the long run it could bite us in the rear end, next time we have an anti as POTUS.

The 2A protects the individual right to keep and bear ARMS, period, not "militia arms".

 

 

I don't think this is a precedent issue because this kind of order can't be turned against gun owners by the next dem to occupy the WH (God help us all!).   Here, the president has  clear authority and duty to ensure that we are able to protect homeland and the constitution specifically recognizes our right to form a militia (which is not the National Guard, despite left wing interpretations).   If the rationale behind the order is to allow people to own civilian weapons that are compatible with standard issue military magazines, ammo and parts, so that (if SHTF) citizens would be able to use government stockpiles of ammo, mags etc,  It would, therefore, make sense that the order specifically identify compatible weapon systems that are suitable for use by the militia and can be owned by any citizen, notwithstanding state laws to the contrary.   So--AR's work make sense for such a law.  The government doesn't stockpile 7.62x39, so AK-47's don't work as a designated militia rifle.   This doesn't mean you can't own an AK or some other weapon system.  You still have your 2A rights.   



#37 Skywalker

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Posted March 25 2017 - 07:33 PM

Just going through some threads...

 

The other night, I was going through some of my dad's papers.  He was a very conservative man in many uses of the word, but clearly very right wing politically.  I came across a small booklet that had a copy of the Declaration and Constitution.  

 

I took a few minutes and read both again.  

 

Not to sound like an a$$, but I recommend we all do this from time to time.  The Declaration points to many abuses that we never think about.  When you read the Constitution, the idea of independent states really comes through.  Their conception of the US seems to me to be very similar to the UK.  As Americans, we think about Ireland, Scotland, England, Wales as countries, but we understand they are the UK.  That is what the founding fathers conceived for the US, I think.  

 

Just thinking out loud, after a rum or few.



#38 Countrylife307

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Posted March 25 2017 - 07:47 PM

man I Hope it works 



#39 rubbermittens

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Posted March 26 2017 - 08:45 AM

Not sure I like caliber designation Ar15 can also be chambered in 7.62 Nato .308 Winchester.

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then you will be fine, Im sure they will have some 308 for ya

besides what gun owner has an AR in just 1 caliber?



#40 LarryD23

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Posted March 26 2017 - 09:53 AM

BTW, had a great day at the range with my daughter today, speaking of rights.  Brought a 22 SAA, 22 S&W model 41, M1 carbine, Sako 222.  Wind picked up, got a little cold, but had a blast, as always.

Which range? I'm looking for a range that will allow my 14 year old daughter to fire a handgun. Mitchell Field range limits kids to .22 rifles.







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