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Get the latest facts on the new NY SAFE gun laws that effect you!

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Will we be allowed to order ammo online again without using s FFL?


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46 replies to this topic

#1 MikeLi_77

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Posted January 04 2017 - 03:33 PM

Sorry if this is in the wrong secrion. Mods Please move it if you have to.
I keep seeing websites stating that cuomo has agreed to suspend the background checks and allow ammunition to be bought online again through a deal he made with the Republicans.
Quote from one website:
"Gov. Andrew Cuomo has agreed to suspend plans for background checks for ammunition sales in New York and allow internet sales of ammunition, changing part of the NY Safe Act, according to state Sen. James Seward."
That was from targetsportsusa http://www.targetspo...es-p-58633.aspx

Most other places still say I would have to ship to an FFL. Can someone please verify for me if this change allows me to purchase ammo online and have it shipped to my house or do I still need to ship it to an FFL?
I did find one website that states they will ship it to your house because of the the change in the safe act that I stated above, but if you still want to go through an FFL they will do it that way also.
Has anyone bought ammo from sprtmansguide? They have the cheapest ammo I can find in the caliber I need but I emailed them and they said they don't ship to any ffl's. Has anyone else been able to get ammo from them?
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#2 ProGodProGunProLife

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Posted January 04 2017 - 03:42 PM

Sorry if this is in the wrong secrion. Mods Please move it if you have to.
I keep seeing websites stating that cuomo has agreed to suspend the background checks and allow ammunition to be bought online again through a deal he made with the Republicans.
Quote from one website:
"Gov. Andrew Cuomo has agreed to suspend plans for background checks for ammunition sales in New York and allow internet sales of ammunition, changing part of the NY Safe Act, according to state Sen. James Seward."
That was from targetsportsusa http://www.targetspo...es-p-58633.aspx

Most other places still say I would have to ship to an FFL. Can someone please verify for me if this change allows me to purchase ammo online and have it shipped to my house or do I still need to ship it to an FFL?
I did find one website that states they will ship it to your house because of the the change in the safe act that I stated above, but if you still want to go through an FFL they will do it that way also.
Has anyone bought ammo from sprtmansguide? They have the cheapest ammo I can find in the caliber I need but I emailed them and they said they don't ship to any ffl's. Has anyone else been able to get ammo from them?

 

 

I believe Target Sports USA recently stopped shipping to doorsteps and will only ship to FFL's now.

 

I believe the background check on ammo part of unSAFE was suspended indefinitely It was only to go into effect when the state police had a system in place, and little or no progress toward such a system had been made.

 

But, AFAIK, they did nothing about the online ammo sales ban.  

 

There might still be a few sellers who will ship to doorsteps, but most won't.  Target Sports USA was one of the longest hold outs until they recently changed their policy.  

 

Technically, I am not sure what NYS can really do about out of state ammo sellers shipping to NYS doorsteps.  The unSAFE Act only sanctions the seller and not the buyer in such sales, and I am not sure if they have any recourse against out of state shippers who refuse to comply.



#3 iGreg

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Posted January 04 2017 - 04:06 PM

...

Technically, I am not sure what NYS can really do about out of state ammo sellers shipping to NYS doorsteps.  The unSAFE Act only sanctions the seller and not the buyer in such sales, and I am not sure if they have any recourse against out of state shippers who refuse to comply.

Unless the company has a physical presence (or financial accounts) in a state I do not see how that state can have direct jurisdiction over them. It seems to me the state (or states) where the company is located would have have to cooperate with NY state in going after them or NY would somehow have to get a Federal Court to enforce the actions.


Edited by iGreg, January 04 2017 - 04:09 PM.

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#4 LarryD23

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Posted January 04 2017 - 04:23 PM

You can still order ammo online from Target Sports USA without an FFL.


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#5 ProGodProGunProLife

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Posted January 04 2017 - 04:25 PM

You can still order ammo online from Target Sports USA without an FFL.

Are you sure?  I believe it was reported on LIGC recently that they were no longer shipping to doorsteps.



#6 M14 Shooter

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Posted January 04 2017 - 04:38 PM

Are you sure?  I believe it was reported on LIGC recently that they were no longer shipping to doorsteps.

They have definitely changed there policy. On 12/22 I ordered a couple of hundred rounds from Target sports USA. I never received a do not ship email from them and I got my ammo a few days later. SO order away and get some.


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#7 LarryD23

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Posted January 04 2017 - 04:42 PM

Are you sure?  I believe it was reported on LIGC recently that they were no longer shipping to doorsteps.

Just (as in 15 minutes ago) ordered 1,000 rounds of MagTech 9mm.



#8 ProGodProGunProLife

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Posted January 04 2017 - 04:50 PM

Just (as in 15 minutes ago) ordered 1,000 rounds of MagTech 9mm.

 

I believe the poster on LIGC had his order canceled with Target Sports realized it was to a non-ffl in NYS.  Let us know if you get your order.  It would be great if they are still shipping.



#9 TJ Ironhorse

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Posted January 04 2017 - 05:02 PM

You can still order ammo online from Target Sports USA without an FFL.


Yes, you can.

#10 whitefoot

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Posted January 04 2017 - 05:06 PM

This was news from  July 2015  http://www.targetspo...es-p-58633.aspx   There has been nothing new on this issue at all . At first it was a ban on internet ammo sales to NY state and was changed to shipping to an FFL.

However there are a few places that will ship to your door. 


Edited by whitefoot, January 04 2017 - 05:08 PM.


#11 MikeLi_77

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Posted January 04 2017 - 05:19 PM

This is a copy of the memorandum that all of these sites are using to say that you can buy ammo but unless I am reading it wrong or i am not looking at the correct page it only talks about the background checks being suspended. I don't see anything about internet sales being allowed but this is the link that all of these websites are showing wear they say that they can ship to your doors.  https://www.scribd.c...fe-Act-07-10-15

 

1-216fbdd390.jpg



#12 MikeLi_77

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Posted January 04 2017 - 05:20 PM

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#13 DellDude

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Posted January 04 2017 - 05:59 PM

Order as much as you can, while you can.  Some Brooklyn legislator is trying to introduce a new law to limit you to twice a month and no more than twice the amount of ammo your mag can hold.



#14 whitefoot

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Posted January 04 2017 - 06:03 PM

Monda y Posted Jul 13, 2015 at 6:55 PM           NOTHING HAS CHANGED  ........ PERIOD
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The head of New York's National Rifle Association affiliate said Monday that a gun control deal between Gov. Andrew Cuomo and Republicans in the state Senate does little, and possibly nothing, to lift restrictions on ammunition sales.

By The Associated Press

 

The head of New York's National Rifle Association affiliate said Monday that a gun control deal between Gov. Andrew Cuomo and Republicans in the state Senate does little, and possibly nothing, to lift restrictions on ammunition sales.

 

Tom King, president of New York State Rifle and Pistol Association, said his understanding was that the memo signed Friday by a top Cuomo aide and Republican Senate Majority Leader John Flanagan would roll back some gun controls enacted after the 2012 Connecticut school massacre. The deal was expected to lift the prohibition on direct Internet ammunition sales to New Yorkers and eliminate a database of ammunition buyers required by the two-year-old law, King said, but Cuomo's subsequent comments show that's not the case.

Cuomo's office said Saturday the database will be created when technically feasible and that the prohibition on Internet sales will remain until the database launches. New Yorkers can still buy bullets online, but the law says they have to go through a dealer licensed in New York and pick up the ammo in person.

"It's obvious when the facts came to light it wasn't nearly as much as we were looking for. In fact, according to the governor ... there's nothing there," King said. "Somebody either got out-negotiated or they're just afraid of the governor."

Republican senators who opposed the Safe Act praised the deal when it was announced. Republican Sen. James Seward initially said lifting the ban on Internet ammunition sales was included in the agreement - only to be corrected by Cuomo's chief counsel on Saturday.

Seward told the Associated Press on Monday that his earlier interpretation was based on the opinion of Senate counsel.

"I'm going to leave it up to the lawyers to determine that question. I'm not going to argue that point," he said. "At least there's some movement toward a common-sense approach here ... I've heard some people say 'hey, this isn't much, it's not enough.' But at least it's something."

The memorandum of understanding signed by Flanagan and Director of State Operations James Malatras acknowledges technology now is inadequate to establish the intended database.

 
 

Edited by whitefoot, January 04 2017 - 06:04 PM.


#15 sparks25

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Posted January 04 2017 - 09:32 PM

So pretty much Cuomo, with his drug impaired brain, out maneuvered the RINOs and NYSRPA again and made them look like idiots...again!
Sound about right?
Did they give him something and then he just backed out of his end?

Edited by sparks25, January 04 2017 - 09:50 PM.


#16 BLAMMO

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Posted January 04 2017 - 10:27 PM

Here are the relevant sections of the SAFE Act There's nothing about "internet sales". And until the ammo data base is implemented, none of these sections have any practical effect, other than a "chilling effect". Everyone except for Target Sports is just running scared.

 

The highlighted parts in red effectively suspend all the other provisions.

 

 

Relevant sections of the NYS SAFE Act (Penal Law) relating to sellers of ammunition,
the ammunition data base and ammunition sales:



                                 ARTICLE 265
                    FIREARMS AND OTHER DANGEROUS WEAPONS

§ 265.00 Definitions.

...

  24. "Seller  of  ammunition"  means  any  person,  firm,  partnership,
  corporation  or  company  who  engages  in  the  business of purchasing,
  selling or keeping ammunition.
 
...
 
 
 
                              ARTICLE 400
             LICENSING AND OTHER PROVISIONS RELATING TO FIREARMS
            
            
§ 400.02 Statewide license and record database.
    There  shall be a statewide license and record database which shall be
  created and maintained by the division of state police the cost of which
  shall not be borne by any municipality. Records assembled  or  collected
  for  purposes  of  inclusion  in  such  database shall not be subject to
  disclosure pursuant to article six of the public officers  law.  Records
  containing granted license applications shall be periodically checked by
  the  division  of criminal justice services against criminal conviction,
  mental health, and all other records as are necessary to determine their
  continued accuracy as well as whether an individual is no longer a valid
  license holder. The division of criminal  justice  services  shall  also
  check  pending  applications  made pursuant to this article against such
  records to determine  whether  a  license  may  be  granted.  All  state
  agencies shall cooperate with the division of criminal justice services,
  as  otherwise  authorized  by law, in making their records available for
  such checks. The division of criminal justice services, upon determining
  that an individual is ineligible to possess a license, or is no longer a
  valid license holder, shall notify the applicable licensing official  of
  such determination and such licensing official shall not issue a license
  or  revoke  such  license  and  any  weapons  owned or possessed by such
  individual  shall  be  removed  consistent  with   the   provisions   of
  subdivision  eleven  of  section 400.00 of this article. Local and state
  law enforcement  shall  have  access  to  such  database,  as  otherwise
  authorized by law, in the performance of their duties. Records assembled
  or  collected  for  purposes of inclusion in the database established by
  this section shall be released pursuant to a court order.
            
 
  § 400.03 Sellers of ammunition.
    1.  A  seller  of  ammunition as defined in subdivision twenty-four of
  section 265.00 of this chapter shall register with the superintendent of
  state police in a manner provided by the superintendent. Any  dealer  in
  firearms  that  is  validly  licensed pursuant to section 400.00 of this
  article shall not be required to complete such registration.
    2. Any seller of ammunition or dealer in firearms shall keep a  record
  book  approved  as to form by the superintendent of state police. In the
  record book shall be entered at the time of every transaction  involving
  ammunition  the  date, name, age, occupation and residence of any person
  from whom ammunition is received or to whom ammunition is delivered, and
  the amount, calibre, manufacturer's name and serial number, or if  none,
  any   other   distinguishing  number  or  identification  mark  on  such
  ammunition.  The  record  book  shall  be  maintained  on  the  premises
  mentioned  and  described  in  the  license  and  shall  be  open at all
  reasonable hours for inspection by any peace officer, acting pursuant to
  his or her special  duties,  or  police  officer.  Any  record  produced
  pursuant  to this section and any transmission thereof to any government
  agency shall not be considered a public record for purposes  of  article
  six of the public officers law.
    3.  No  later  than  thirty days after the superintendent of the state
  police  certifies  that  the  statewide  license  and  record   database
  established  pursuant  to  section 400.02 of this article is operational
  for the purposes of this section,
a dealer in firearms licensed pursuant
  to section 400.00 of this article, a seller of ammunition as defined  in
  subdivision  twenty-four  of  section  265.00  of this chapter shall not
  transfer any ammunition to any other person  who  is  not  a  dealer  in
  firearms  as  defined  in  subdivision  nine of such section 265.00 or a
  seller of ammunition as defined in subdivision  twenty-four  of  section
  265.00 of this chapter, unless:
    (a)  before  the  completion  of  the transfer, the licensee or seller
  contacts the statewide license and  record  database  and  provides  the
  database  with information sufficient to identify such dealer or seller,
  transferee based  on  information  on  the  transferee's  identification
  document as defined in paragraph © of this subdivision, as well as the
  amount,  calibre, manufacturer's name and serial number, if any, of such
  ammunition;
    ( B)  the  system  provides  the  licensee  or  seller  with  a  unique
  identification number; and
    ©  the  transferor  has  verified  the identity of the transferee by
  examining a valid state identification document of the transferee issued
  by the department of motor vehicles  or  if  the  transferee  is  not  a
  resident  of  the  state  of  New  York, a valid identification document
  issued by the transferee's state or country of  residence  containing  a
  photograph of the transferee.
    4.  If  the  database  determines  that the purchaser of ammunition is
  eligible to possess ammunition pursuant to state and federal  laws,  the
  system shall:
    (a) assign a unique identification number to the transfer; and
    ( B) provide the licensee or seller with the number.
    5.  If the statewide license and record database notifies the licensee
  or seller that the  information  available  to  the  database  does  not
  demonstrate  that  the  receipt of ammunition by such other person would
  violate 18 U.S.C. 922(g)  or  state  law,  and  the  licensee  transfers
  ammunition  to  such  other  person,  the licensee shall indicate to the
  database that such transaction has  been  completed  at  which  point  a
  record of such transaction shall be created which shall be accessible by
  the  division of state police and maintained for no longer than one year

  from point of  purchase,  which  shall  not  be  incorporated  into  the
  database  established  pursuant to section 400.02 of this article or the
  registry established pursuant to subdivision sixteen-a of section 400.00
  of this article. The division of state police may share such information
  with  a  local  law  enforcement  agency.  Evidence  of  the purchase of
  ammunition is not sufficient to establish probable cause to believe that
  the purchaser has committed a crime absent other information tending  to
  prove  the commission of a crime. Records assembled or accessed pursuant
  to this section shall not be subject to disclosure pursuant  to  article
  six  of  the public officers law. This requirement of this section shall
  not apply (i) if a background check  cannot  be  completed  because  the
  system  is  not operational as determined by the superintendent of state
  police, or where it cannot be accessed by  the  practitioner  due  to  a
  temporary   technological   or  electrical  failure,  as  set  forth  in
  regulation, or (ii) a dealer or seller has been granted  a  waiver  from
  conducting  such  background check if the superintendent of state police
  determines  that  such  dealer  is  incapable  of  such  check  due   to
  technological  limitations that are not reasonably within the control of
  the dealer, or  other  exceptional  circumstances  demonstrated  by  the
  dealer,  pursuant  to  a  process  established in regulation, and at the
  discretion of such superintendent.
    6. If the superintendent of state  police  certifies  that  background
  checks  of  ammunition  purchasers may be conducted through the national
  instant criminal background check system, use of that system by a dealer
  or seller shall be sufficient to satisfy subdivisions four and  five  of
  this  section  and  such  checks shall be conducted through such system,
  provided that a record of such transaction shall  be  forwarded  to  the
  state police in a form determined by the superintendent.
    7.  No  commercial  transfer  of  ammunition shall take place unless a
  licensed dealer in firearms or registered seller of ammunition  acts  as
  an  intermediary  between  the transferor and the ultimate transferee of
  the ammunition for the purposes of contacting the statewide license  and
  record  database  pursuant  to  this  section. Such transfer between the
  dealer or seller, and transferee must occur in person.

    8. A seller of ammunition who  fails  to  register  pursuant  to  this
  section  and sells ammunition, for a first offense, shall be guilty of a
  violation and subject to the fine of one  thousand  dollars  and  for  a
  second offense, shall be guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
    A seller of ammunition that fails to keep any record required pursuant
  to  this section, for a first offense shall be guilty of a violation and
  subject to a fine of five hundred dollars,  and  for  a  second  offense
  shall  be  guilty of a class B misdemeanor, and the registration of such
  seller shall be revoked.

 


Edited by BLAMMO, January 04 2017 - 10:31 PM.

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#17 dank27

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Posted January 05 2017 - 06:25 AM

Target sports usa is shipping to you again.
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#18 joey52685

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Posted January 05 2017 - 11:23 AM

I believe the poster on LIGC had his order canceled with Target Sports realized it was to a non-ffl in NYS.  Let us know if you get your order.  It would be great if they are still shipping.

 

Well I have an order arriving today from them, already shipped with a tracking number.  And I had one come a couple weeks ago too. 



#19 BLAMMO

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Posted January 05 2017 - 11:30 AM

I believe the poster on LIGC had his order canceled with Target Sports realized it was to a non-ffl in NYS.  Let us know if you get your order.  It would be great if they are still shipping.

 

It was Destro who had his order canceled. It seemed to be just one person at Target Sports who was confused about the policy. I don't know if he ever got it resolved. He posts here too still.



#20 set2374

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Posted January 05 2017 - 12:25 PM

Are you sure?  I believe it was reported on LIGC recently that they were no longer shipping to doorsteps.

 

I am quite positive.   :)  I just ordered a case of Wolf Gold in .223 for 0.31 a round, with free shipping to my door).  :)   I LOVE TargetSportsusa.com!!!   


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