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Get the latest facts on the new NY SAFE gun laws that effect you!

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Lawmaker Betting on Trump to Push New Concealed Carry Law


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#1 P Martin

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Posted December 07 2016 - 01:54 PM

The new session of Congress doesn’t begin for a few weeks, but one Republican policymaker has already drawn up a bill that would allow people to carry a concealed handgun from one state to another.

 
 

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The lawmaker behind the bill, Rep. Richard Hudson (R-NC), joined the FOX Business Network’s Stuart Varney to discuss how the proposed National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill would work.

“It would work just like a driver’s license,” he said. “If a state has concealed carry, then what it says is you recognize the concealed carry right and you have to follow their laws.”

Even though the bill couldn’t be imposed in states that don’t enforce the concealed carry law, in Rep. Hudson’s opinion, the bill has a very good chance of getting passed.

“In the last Congress that’s about to end, in 48 hours, we had over 200 co-sponsors… so I think passing the House is not going to be a problem and now more importantly… we’ve got a President who supports this freedom,” he said.   link: http://www.foxbusine...-carry-law.html


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#2 zzrguy

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Posted December 07 2016 - 02:24 PM

You now how F'd up it going to be that we can't carry in our own state but a guy from Ohio can.



#3 set2374

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Posted December 07 2016 - 02:55 PM

This will be fantastic and I think it has much broader implications that Rep. Hudson and the CCW crowd is letting on.   Rep. Hudson suggests the Bill won't apply to people that come from states that don't allow concealed carry, but that's actually not true.  Here's a link to the text of the Bill:  http://dailycaller.c...Rep.-Hudson.pdf  According to the language of the proposed Bill, all states that have laws that allow for concealed carry must honor the CCP issued by any other state.   Since all states (except for Vermont [see below]), have laws that allow concealed carry, the law would be binding.  Here's the key part of the Bill for us:

 

 

"[A] person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, who is carrying a valid identification document containing a photograph of the person, and [1] who is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or [2] is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides, 18 may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a 19 machinegun or destructive device)

 

As written, there are two types of people: (1)  any person that is carrying a valid license or permit to carry a concealed firearm in "a" state, or (2) or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the state in which the person resides.  So, if you have a license from any state authorizing you to carry concealed, it's good in any state including new york.  The first category is the only one that matters for us.   This appears to mean that anyone who holds a state issued carrying permit does not include a provision that the person be a resident of the issuing state.   So, if I were to apply by mail for a concealed carry permit in Arizona, New Hampshire, Nevada, Utah or Virginia (states that will issue to non-residents by mail and, in the case of New Hampshire, without requiring the applicant to have a CCW from the state where they reside), then I would have a right to carry in New York.  This bypasses the whole need to get an permit to possess a handgun, let alone carry in New York.  Moreover, a state cannot constitutionally ban all private ownership of handguns or CCW.   They get around this by requiring us to apply for and show a need for a permit, which they don't approve.  

 

This is really great news if we can get a law like this through congress.   Hopefully, this won't go be modified to include language that would say that the permit has to be issued the state where the person resides.   By adding that language, everyone would be allowed to carry in New York, but New York residents won't be able to carry under New York's unconstitutional regime.  The Bill, as written now, does not do this!  It's a beautiful, sweet bill that I would hug and kiss if passed as is.

 

Note 1:  For those of you that are interested.   The second category of person "who is entitled to carry a firearm in the state in which that person resides" appears to be intended for the benefit of a Vermont resident because Vermont wisely does not issue permits since Vermont respects our right to defend ourselves and you don't need a "permit" or a "license" to exercise a fundamental, constitutionally protected right.   :)

 

Note 2:  New Hampshire allows applications for CCW by non-residents through mail regardless of whether the applicant has a CCW in the state where they reside.   In June, the New Hampshire Supreme Court issued a great decision on this issue, holding that NH administrative regulations requiring a non-residentto show that they have a CCW permit in the state where they reside in order to get a NH CCW are invalid because they adopt other state's laws that exceed the requirement for a permit under NH law.   In particular, the Court noted that a NJ resident cannot be denied a CCW permit from New Jersey because they can't get one from their state which makes it impossible for residents to get a CCW.   So, if you pass a routine background check, you get a CCW from New Hamphire (which will issue by mail).   Under the Reciprocity Bill, we get to carry in New York.



#4 P Martin

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Posted December 07 2016 - 04:03 PM

So, for those of us that have a Utah CCW, we should be good to go in NY?


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#5 Phoenix69

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Posted December 07 2016 - 04:17 PM

Keep your fingers crossed.

#6 set2374

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Posted December 07 2016 - 04:17 PM

So, for those of us that have a Utah CCW, we should be good to go in NY?

  

If the law passes in its current form, I think so.   I am not really sure how those left wing weasels will work around this one.   



#7 mason852

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Posted December 07 2016 - 04:24 PM

I HATE N.Y.
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#8 Lou G

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Posted December 07 2016 - 04:32 PM

I HATE N.Y.

That's two of us



#9 firemanvin

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Posted December 07 2016 - 04:34 PM

Might be able to think of this in terms of how LEOSA works.  I'm sure anti-2A states like New York were vehemently opposed to 50 state reciprocity for active and retired LEOs since there is no national standards or uniformity for law enforcement training, procedures, and so on.  For example, New York has high standard for LE training and an enormous amount of restrictions on the use of force or deadly physical force.  Conversely, a small southern town may literally hire an officer, give him a quick class, and put him out to work.  Add to that lesser restrictive deadly physical force requirements and you have a gap that will make every liberal lawmaker in NYC and NYS totally adverse to LEOSA.  But, LEOSA is powerful and preempts state restrictions so the southern officer completely unfamiliar with the way NY police do things can travel freely to NY with his weapon concealed, period. He essentially poses the same "risk" to New York as would a civilian concealed carrier from out of state.  But, the full force and effect of LEOSA beats down the NYS and NYC lawmakers into submission.  Of course LEOSA was passed based upon lobbying efforts from police unions and the more recent aftermath of 9/11.  Despite democrat lawmaker objections, the lobbying and 9/11 sentiment got it through with the full force and effect of preempting state laws.

 

Now we have a uniquely pro 2A president and Republicans controlling both congress and the senate.  As long as they make CCW reciprocity as forceful and preemptive as LEOSA, NYS and NYC will have little choice but to comply.


Edited by firemanvin, December 07 2016 - 04:35 PM.


#10 TJ Ironhorse

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Posted December 07 2016 - 04:38 PM

I doubt any laws are going to help us carry freely in this liberal sink hole. I dont feel compelled to delude my myself into thinking otherwise. JMHO On the subject.
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#11 firemanvin

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Posted December 07 2016 - 05:07 PM

This is the major "bazzinga":

 

"Persons carrying as a non-resident in a state would otherwise be bound by whatever laws of the state they are visiting. This would end the confusing patchwork of reciprocity agreements that are currently in place across the country."

 

There is a gap here big enough to fill an ocean.  What "laws" are they referring to? Laws pertaining to use of the firearm?  Ammunition types allowed?  Magazine capacity allowed?  New York State, for example does not have a law that prohibits concealed carry, but makes provisions for administrative restrictions on concealed carry - but that's not a law, so administrative restrictions should not apply.  But there is a law that disallows "high capacity" magazines.  So NYS could not stop an out of state concealed carrier, but could bust you with a felony if you had a 12 round mag.  Or NJ could bust you if you had hollow points in the firearm.  This would be a nightmare for someone traveling through states where the laws change from state to state.  The base CCW may be legit, but depending on what state you happen to be in, you may be committing a felony anyway.

 

And what about places like New York where a city within the state has it's own set of laws?  Theoretically, NYC does not make CCW illegal, they just won't issue licenses to ordinary people.  I guess as a practical matter, there is no state in the country that can completely outlaw concealed carry (DC and Chicago tried to and failed), so basic CCW reciprocity can theoretically can be imposed, but the laws within those cities or states can lead to a disaster for a concealed carrier unless the concealed carrier made sure their weapon was compliant with every state they planned on passing through.



#12 set2374

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Posted December 07 2016 - 05:12 PM

Might be able to think of this in terms of how LEOSA works.  I'm sure anti-2A states like New York were vehemently opposed to 50 state reciprocity for active and retired LEOs since there is no national standards or uniformity for law enforcement training, procedures, and so on.  For example, New York has high standard for LE training and an enormous amount of restrictions on the use of force or deadly physical force.  Conversely, a small southern town may literally hire an officer, give him a quick class, and put him out to work.  Add to that lesser restrictive deadly physical force requirements and you have a gap that will make every liberal lawmaker in NYC and NYS totally adverse to LEOSA.  But, LEOSA is powerful and preempts state restrictions so the southern officer completely unfamiliar with the way NY police do things can travel freely to NY with his weapon concealed, period. He essentially poses the same "risk" to New York as would a civilian concealed carrier from out of state.  But, the full force and effect of LEOSA beats down the NYS and NYC lawmakers into submission.  Of course LEOSA was passed based upon lobbying efforts from police unions and the more recent aftermath of 9/11.  Despite democrat lawmaker objections, the lobbying and 9/11 sentiment got it through with the full force and effect of preempting state laws.

 

Now we have a uniquely pro 2A president and Republicans controlling both congress and the senate.  As long as they make CCW reciprocity as forceful and preemptive as LEOSA, NYS and NYC will have little choice but to comply.

 

I think that's pretty much how it's going to work.  You're still stuck with NY's emasculated self-defense laws that where you basically have to let a criminal corner you in a whole and hold a weapon before you can legally defense yourself--but National CCW reciprocity is a great starting point.   The Dems are already planning on using state's rights arguments to fight these types of laws, but no way this one won't be upheld by a supreme court with a pro-2A trump judge added to the panel.   They don't even have to get to 2A issues since this will be covered under the federal government's right to regulate interstate commerce.  These same federal vs. state's rights arguments will also come into play in immigration cases involving These Northern slave state Dems are going to really enjoy having all of the civil rights decisions won after years of battling free southern states for shoved up their asses by the NRA!  :)    It's a really exciting time to be patriotic American.  God bless President Trump!!

 

 

I doubt any laws are going to help us carry freely in this liberal sink hole. I dont feel compelled to delude my myself into thinking otherwise. JMHO On the subject.

 

I don't recommend buying an expensive new concealed holster just yet, but there is reason to have hope.   National reciprocity is a big item on the NRA-ILA priority list   We have been waiting a long time for this day to come and they are not going to let republicans and trump not address this issue after they spent $50,000,000+ on this election cycle.    



#13 set2374

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Posted December 07 2016 - 05:39 PM

This is the major "bazzinga":

 

"Persons carrying as a non-resident in a state would otherwise be bound by whatever laws of the state they are visiting. This would end the confusing patchwork of reciprocity agreements that are currently in place across the country."

 

There is a gap here big enough to fill an ocean.  What "laws" are they referring to? Laws pertaining to use of the firearm?  Ammunition types allowed?  Magazine capacity allowed?  New York State, for example does not have a law that prohibits concealed carry, but makes provisions for administrative restrictions on concealed carry - but that's not a law, so administrative restrictions should not apply.  But there is a law that disallows "high capacity" magazines.  So NYS could not stop an out of state concealed carrier, but could bust you with a felony if you had a 12 round mag.  Or NJ could bust you if you had hollow points in the firearm.  This would be a nightmare for someone traveling through states where the laws change from state to state.  The base CCW may be legit, but depending on what state you happen to be in, you may be committing a felony anyway.

 

And what about places like New York where a city within the state has it's own set of laws?  Theoretically, NYC does not make CCW illegal, they just won't issue licenses to ordinary people.  I guess as a practical matter, there is no state in the country that can completely outlaw concealed carry (DC and Chicago tried to and failed), so basic CCW reciprocity can theoretically can be imposed, but the laws within those cities or states can lead to a disaster for a concealed carrier unless the concealed carrier made sure their weapon was compliant with every state they planned on passing through.

 

National reciprocity only deals with the right to carry, you're still bound by the laws of the state you travel to.  So, yes, you might be limited to 10 round mags in New York, 15 in jersey etc.   This can be addressed in a Gun Owner's Bill of Rights, but it's more like that this will be an issue for the court's to decide.   National reciprocity is still a very big deal because the vast majority of case law out there does support a state's right to regulate CCW.   Reciprocity can't be successfully challenged in the court's based on the 2A alone.  Magazine limits and AWB's like the safe act, however, may not survive a challenge with a conservative court, although we may need more than a replacement for scalia for this to get done.   If Ginsberg should kick the bucket (knock on wood, god bless her bleeding heart!), we'll be in business.   Once that happens, you'll get this decision from Justice Thomas which he wrote in dissent to a denial for cert in Highland park last year:  https://www.supremec...15-133_7l48.pdf  If you care about 2A rights and want to see the SAFE Act ruled unconstitutional, this is a must read dissent.


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#14 Tracee

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Posted December 08 2016 - 12:20 AM

Our overseers in Albany are going to have an aneurysm if this goes through. Outstanding news!!!

#15 Mr. Shotgun

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Posted December 08 2016 - 09:09 AM

Lets hope national concealed carry passes. As for as magazine capacity etc. I hope that people from free states can travel with their standard capacity magazines to states with a 10 round limit and be in compliance. Why should someone from Texas who's coming to NY for vacation/work have to spend extra money and buy 10 rounders just to be compliant?



#16 zzrguy

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Posted December 08 2016 - 04:21 PM

I don't see this happening very fast.



#17 boosti

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Posted December 08 2016 - 04:47 PM

I don't see this happening very fast.

This will be done during his first term. President Elect Trump will keep his campaign promise. He is going sign this fast and Repeal Obama care!

#18 mason852

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Posted December 09 2016 - 04:31 PM

My son is an active duty LEO and he won't carry out of state because of the confusing laws Anything that can clarify this mess would be a blessing

#19 boosti

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Posted December 09 2016 - 05:58 PM

My son is an active duty LEO and he won't carry out of state because of the confusing laws
Anything that can clarify this mess would be a blessing

If he is allowed to make arrests off duty which any active Police/Peace is allowed in NY and is employed by a municipality he is allowed under LEOSA HR218 under Federal Law to carry. New Jersey still forbids hollow points.

#20 JAMerolle

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Posted December 10 2016 - 08:47 AM

So, for those of us that have a Utah CCW, we should be good to go in NY?

 

I don't think this works because you cannot own and poses a pistol without your NY license.  If you carry outside of class they can suspended your New York License and there goes your firearms.  The only way it will work for us is if they make allotments for ownership/purchase across state lines.


Edited by JAMerolle, December 10 2016 - 08:48 AM.





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