Quoted from borisny

Once again, don’t be condescending. I understand that you think you know what you are talking about, but you seem not to be able to understand that I am taking about transportation of a firearm to a range and not about the address. If you ever decide not to be condescending, we might be able to continue the discussion.

According to what you are saying an orange county resident with premises license cannot go to a shooting range in Rockland. LOL

Boris
Again I am not being condecending. And I do know what I am talking about. And yes A premise permit works the same anywhere. It is the premise that is licensed so you are prohibited from transporting the gun out of and away from the premises except in the instance that whichever jurisdiction gives you permission to. A premise permit is NOT a traget license it licenses the premises and the gun gan only be kept on the premises. It cannot be removed from that premise unless you have special permission. That is what the endorsement is all about from the City.
I don;t understand what is so difficult about this. You are talking about transporting. A premise license does not allow you to transport. NYC gives you the right to transport only in limited instances to practice because they can give you that right.
You will not even entertain that you may not fully understand the laws and again you are adament that you are correct. I'm beginnig to suspect that you are continuing this soley to get a rise out of people here. If yu think I don;t know what I am talking about then neither does Gary or any of the other people that have tried to explain this to you.
I am so done.

This whole isssue was about Boris saying NYC premises permit was a NYC permit not a NYS permit with restrictions. When did this become about transporting your handgun with a premises permit ? You say NYPD website says premises permit cannot take their gun to a range outside of NYC, and in the same breath you say that they cant do anything if you do take it outside of the city. My god not to offend anyone, but as a NYC premises license holder with all the explaining Steve and Gary did on this matter even my blind grandmother now knows the rules.

wow. I apologize for bringing up the clerk comment about Nassau and Suffolk. lol. Had I known it would snowball this way...  

Anyway, On the material I was given from 1pp it clearly stated that I could buy from any Licensed NYS firearms dealer or current holder of a NYS or NYC handgun License or a NYS/NYC Police/Peace Officer, the estate of deceased NYC/NYS handgun Licensee.

Also, I placed a call to both the Nassau County Pistol division and to Mitchell Field Range to ask if i would be able to shoot in the county with a Premises Residence and both told me that I could. Now, that doesn't mean I'm going to but I was just checking in to see what they would say. Both did not hesitate to give me an answer. I'm sure they must get a few calls a month asking this very question.

Willus
No need to apologize. This forum is about helping members and exchanging knowledge.
Some of us here have more extensive knowledge than others in different respective areas and are willing to share.  That's how people learn and become more knowledgable.  I can be a pig headed as anybody here, but I also know my limitations.
If I am not an expert in something, I will voice my opinion but defer to those who are.
But if I am an expert in something, I feel then I am qualified to make the point.
I think all of us here feel the same.  No animosity toward Boris, he is entitled to say what is on his mind as all of us are. And if Boris feels that I was condescending toward him I will publicly apologize here and state that was not my intention. When you discuss the laws,especially laws as confusing as those of NY State, you really should have a background in those laws.
Reading the law and understanding what it means is different than reading the law on it's face. The laws frequently say one thing but are interpreted or intended to mean something else.  
Boris had mentioned in his posts that he holds a master plumbers license fron NYC.
I know some basic plumbing also. I can even sweat copper pipes (imagine that!) but that does not put me in Boris' category of a master plumber and based on his experience as  a master plumber i would defer to his expertise with comlicated plumbing problems.
Gary, myself and several other people on this forum have the necessary expertise in the NYS gun laws to be able to speak with knowledge and authority about them and are willing to share this knowledge with everyone here. We do not speak from what we think is correct. We speak from either formal training in these laws and years of experience in dealing with them. We became that knowledgable because the people before us took the time to share thier knowledge with us. The more we can share and the more others can share with us makes it better for all of us involved in this sport.

So let me jump in to see if I understand all that was said. And I do this for those new NYC license holders who are shaking their heads in confusion. So to state the facts:
A license issued by NYC(premise or carry) is a NYS license.
A premise license as issued by NYC is only valid within NYC. As issued it cannot used to transport a gun outside of NYC limits for any reason(hunting, target shooting,etc.) unless prior authorization is obtained by the licensee.
The green hunting card issued by NYC is the authorization that will allow a NYC premise license holder to transport and use his gun outside of NYC limits for the purpose of hunting or target shooting.
When a NYC premise licensee is transporting a gun either within NYC limits or outside NYC limits with the green hunting authorization card, the gun must be in a locked container with ammo seperate from gun.

SteveG if I'm incorrect in any of my interpretations of all that was said, please feel free to correct or add to it. I just want for all these new NYC license holders to feel comfotable and secure with knowing the rules.

And as a final thought: thank goodness I live in Nassau. I really don't think I could take all this nonsense put forth from 1PP. It makes those at Nassau's Pistol License Division seem like angels.

I think hunting authorization is for hunting purpose only, does not allow one to carry the firearm to target shoot in ranges.  I am so annoyed as a NYC pistol owner

The real issue is that NYC eliminated their target permit, which allowed you to take the gun shooting whenever you wanted to in the state, but required you keep it unloaded and locked up when at home.  I believe the reason that they did this is because elsewhere in the state a target permit is really a limited carry permit that allows you to carry the gun loaded and concealled to and from the range.  Since the rest of the state regards the Target permit as a limited carry permit and NYC did not want anyone anywhere to mistake the City permit as a carry permit (even though it said not for carry on it) they eliminated it and incorrectly substituted the premise permit--which in the rest of the state is considered a permit to only keep the gun loaded at home or at work and take it shooting a limited number of times a year.

When I had a premise permit it allowed you to keep the gun loaded in your home but only take it for practice twice a year after writing for permission like a month in advance.  While a target permit allowed you to take the gun target shooting any time you wanted to but required you keep the gun unloaded and locked up in the house.  So I had my both permits and had my handguns listed on both permits to allow me to take them shooting whenever I wanted and to be able to keep them loaded at home.

In one sense it is a good thing, because I needed two permits to be able to keep the gun loaded in the house and take it target shooting whenever I wanted to.

But on the other hand there is confusion about taking the gun target shooting outside of the City.  When I lived in NYC I lived on the Queens/LI borderline and did all of my shooting at the Nassau county gun range since it was the closest and most convenient to get to.

I imagine if a Nassau County cop stopped you when you had the gun in a locked box he would shrug, since he is uanfamiliar with NYC rulings (and I am not sure I know the answer to whether or not you can take the gun outside of NYC without a hunting authorization), while if a NYC cop stops you in the city, you are within city limits.  I would not expect the cop to be familiar enough with NYC regulations one way or the other.

My read on the whole thing is that the website is badly written and confusing and that what they mean is that the premise permit is only valid for a premise within the 5 boroughs.  But if I lived in NYC now and had a premise permit, given how much it costs and how hard it is to get and how much time and effort is involved, I would be very cautious as well.

Quoted from Postal Bob

So let me jump in to see if I understand all that was said. And I do this for those new NYC license holders who are shaking their heads in confusion. So to state the facts:
A license issued by NYC(premise or carry) is a NYS license.
A premise license as issued by NYC is only valid within NYC. As issued it cannot used to transport a gun outside of NYC limits for any reason(hunting, target shooting,etc.) unless prior authorization is obtained by the licensee.
The green hunting card issued by NYC is the authorization that will allow a NYC premise license holder to transport and use his gun outside of NYC limits for the purpose of hunting or target shooting.
When a NYC premise licensee is transporting a gun either within NYC limits or outside NYC limits with the green hunting authorization card, the gun must be in a locked container with ammo seperate from gun.

SteveG if I'm incorrect in any of my interpretations of all that was said, please feel free to correct or add to it. I just want for all these new NYC license holders to feel comfotable and secure with knowing the rules.

And as a final thought: thank goodness I live in Nassau. I really don't think I could take all this nonsense put forth from 1PP. It makes those at Nassau's Pistol License Division seem like angels.

Exactly as you summed it up is right on the money, No need for any correction.

Former New Yorker
You are close in what you say. The reason NYC did away with thier "target" permits and instead instituted a premise is because there was an instance where a person with a target permit did something, (I forget exactly what happened) and the PD charged him with among other things unlawful possession of a weapon. That charge was thrown out by the court because the target license was in fact a carry license (although restricted) so since he was lawfully licensed he could not be charged with unlawful possession. I am sure I am leaving some important things out here but this is a very basic and quick explanation of why.
You are correct in saying that taking the gun to a range in the past on a premise license was extremely limited and permission had to gotten well in advance.  The city many years ago was sued and was forced to recognize that target shooting was a legitimate reason for the issuance of a license without having to belong to a club. Prior to that you were forced to belong to a club in order to get a license.  So when they made the change in the category of the licenses they decieded not to stick with the once or twice a year as your original reason for the issuance was target shooting. Because of home rule, the city is able to make up regulations as they go along to suit thier needs so they came up with the idea that you should "endeavor to engage in regular practice".
Which allowed you to take it to the range whenever and not just once or twice a year.  ALmost all of the City requirements are not as a result of being in the actual law. They are regulations that the courts have said the city is allowed to do. While you cannot be arrested and jailed for not following the regulations, you can lose you license for violation of them.

Quoted from borisny

Incorrect. "restrictions" allow me to transport a firearm to an authorized range. The problem is that the range has to be in NYC not in NYS. IF I had a let say Premises Orange County License (is there one) It would allow me to transport it to an authorized range in Niagara county, because Orange county licenses are NYS licenses with restrictions. NYC has no authority to restrict a state license outside of NYC.

Boris:
   No, my friend. Your understanding is not correct. A PREMISES license does not allow for transportation, within or outside of New York State, regardless of county agency which administers that license. Every county in the state can issue a PREMISES license, just as every county in the state can issue a CARRY license.
   If, for example, you lived in Orange County and obtained an Orange County-issued PREMISES license, you would not be allowed to transport that handgun to anywhere. A PREMISES license allows only for possession of a registered handgun on the premises designated in that license. It is, still, a STATE license, not an Orange County license or any other county's license.
   On the other hand, a CARRY license allows for transportation, anywhere in the state. If the CARRY license was issued outside NYC, you may carry, concealed, on your body, loaded, in any county, EXCEPT the five counties of NYC. If you pass through NYC, the STATE LAW requires that you unload the handgun, separate it from the ammo and make no stops, in NYC. If, on the other hand, your CARRY license was issued within the five counties of NYC, you may carry, concealed, loaded, in all counties of the state.
   Now, the problem: NYC DOES NOT ISSUE CARRY licenses, to other than retired LEOs, business-qualified persons or to the politically connected. NYC issues only PREMISES licenses, to the majority of NYC handgun licensees. Those PREMISES licenses are valid, as stated in the NYS PENAL CODE, ONLY for possession of the registered handgun(s) on the DESIGNATED PREMISE. Now, the NYC "Target and Hunting Endorsement" DOES NOT convert a PREMISES license into a CARRY license. In fact, there is no such thing, in NYS LAW, as a "PREMISES license, with a target and hunting endorsement." It is a pure fiction, created, by NYC and supported by NYC courts, to issue and restrict handgun licenses, the way they want.
   The "Target and Hunting Endorsement" DOES NOT ALLOW you to transport your handgun outside NYC, EXCEPT FOR hunting. The license is, still, a PREMISES license and it's still a STATE license. That's how they can get away with forcing you to keep your firearm within NYC.
Gary

Quoted from SteveG

Former New Yorker
You are close in what you say. The reason NYC did away with thier "target" permits and instead instituted a premise is because there was an instance where a person with a target permit did something, (I forget exactly what happened) and the PD charged him with among other things unlawful possession of a weapon. That charge was thrown out by the court because the target license was in fact a carry license (although restricted) so since he was lawfully licensed he could not be charged with unlawful possession. I am sure I am leaving some important things out here but this is a very basic and quick explanation of why.

You are right.  I forgot about that case and even now cannot remember the specifics.

The point is that NYC feels that only granting a premise permit and doing away with the target permit will give them more legal leverage.

In one way it is better because it allows you to take the gun shooting and keep it loaded in your house.  On the other hand it may or may not deny you the ability to take the gun to better or more convenient ranges.  Someone really should check with the Pistol License bureau.

Upthread someone mentioned asking them if they could bring the gun to Nassua county and were told that they could not because Nassau has its own rules.  I think what happened was that whoever answered the question assumed that NYC permits would not be valid in Nassau just as Nassau pemits are not valid in NYC.  This is not the case, as Nassau recognizes NYC permits.

Wow. Amazing thread. Thanks to all who try to sort this out, particularly SteveG and Gary_H.

The way my little mind understands it, NYC is not restricting what is valid outside NYC only what you are allowed to do as a city license holder

The regs say its a premise license and transport to a from a range is okay:

PREMISES LICENSE: ISSUED FOR YOUR RESIDENCE OR BUSINESS, THIS IS
A RESTRICTED TYPE OF LICENSE. The Licensee may possess a handgun at the
specific location indicated on the front of the license. This license permits the
transporting of an unloaded handgun directly to and from an authorized small arms
range/shooting club, secured unloaded in a locked container. Ammunition must be
carried separately.

The website says its valid only in NYC and is legally binding

Can I go target shooting outside NYC?
A NYC carry business license is valid throughout NYS. Premise residence and premise business licenses are only valid in NYC except as indicated in the next section


If the website was changed and the above removed, it seems one would be allowed to transport to a range outside of NYC(unless there is a state law that prohibits going to and from a range with a premise license)

If so the license must be valid outside of NYC to other NYS counties, but the current  website language restricts you from going outside NYC.