Saiga 12: I want one.
The pistol grip option is tempting, but unfortunately a grey area, I'd not tempt fate over it. but you can still swap out the trigger group for a g2 trigger which is better and will really improve trigger feel/pull weight. You can put a flash hider on it if you want to, they are threaded for chokes and don't need their muzzle devices perm. attached. You can put on a standard AK type forarm, Dinzag arms sells the adapter to do that. And you can use/ own up to 10 round capacity mags (new manufacture, they dont need to be preban under 10 rounds) with the saiga, which is pretty sweet. And if you want optics you can swap out the gas tube for an ultimak rail. These are really rockin shotguns and have a lot of potential in that little AK reciever there. like I said, I want one!

Quoted from SemiAuto

Saiga 12: I want one.
The pistol grip option is tempting, but unfortunately a grey area, I'd not tempt fate over it. but you can still swap out the trigger group for a g2 trigger which is better and will really improve trigger feel/pull weight. You can put a flash hider on it if you want to, they are threaded for chokes and don't need their muzzle devices perm. attached. You can put on a standard AK type forarm, Dinzag arms sells the adapter to do that. And you can use/ own up to 10 round capacity mags (new manufacture, they dont need to be preban under 10 rounds) with the saiga, which is pretty sweet. And if you want optics you can swap out the gas tube for an ultimak rail. These are really rockin shotguns and have a lot of potential in that little AK reciever there. like I said, I want one!

I want one 2!

i have a dragunov stock on mine, i just picked up that way ,looks nice with this stock ,didn't get a chance to bring to range yet eric

This is the ATI FIBERFORCE STOCK on a Saiga-12.

Quoted from Mr.Magoo

Can't we all just get along!!  That's pretty much why I was asking here.  I had thought that maybe someone had an experience of their own or knew of someone who had changed one and had a story. Maybe had some info on what was good and acceptable or evil and out of the question.  Cause we all know how dangerous those pistol grips can be.  They are the root of all evil!!!  

Jefe, this is Evil:



No need to give thanks....

Quoted from Lostinthewoods

No good in NY.  Too many evil features with the pistol grip.  From what the ban states I don't think you can use mags over 5 rounds either.  That may be up to interpretation since the law is so poorly written...

Here is the ban text:  http://www.longislandfirearms.com/forum/m-1259687888/

(b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following
characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
the weapon;
(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds;
(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine; or

also i believe its illegal to own any kind of weapon with a drum mag, shotguns included, sorry

Quoted from WarFreak131

also i believe its illegal to own any kind of weapon with a drum mag, shotguns included, sorry

No... only if it's post ban.

Firs let me say that I am not being argumentative or stirring the Sh*t as has been said before.  I am merely presenting factual and documented information.  What you do with that information is up to you.

You may want to reconsider that ATI stock in NY.  According to the ATF letter you are no longer in compliance with 922(r) when installing a thumbhole stock on a Saiga.  The ATF considers the thumbhole stocks as both a stock and a pistol grip.  The good news is that it counts as 2 compliance parts if the stock is mand in the USA.  The bad new is that NYS would likely cite the ATF ruling about the stock when prosecuting a NYS Assault Weapon Ban case.  That would mean that you have a detachable mag equipped, semi auto shotgun with a pistol grip.  Clearly a violation of the NYS AWB text.    


ATF leter regarding thumhole stocks on the Saiga:

Dear Mr. LESchwartz:

This refers to your letter, received by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), Firearms Technology Branch (FTB), September16, 2005, pertaining to a Saiga AK-type semiautomatic rifle. Specifically, you requested a clarification regarding modifications to Saiga rifles. Your letter was forwarded to FTB’s new location in Martinsburg, WV, for reply.

As you may be aware, the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), 18 U.S.C. § 922(r), prohibits assembly of certain semiautomatic rifles and shotguns from imported parts. The implementing regulations contained in 27 CFR § 478.39 (formerly 1 78.39) include the stipulation that “no person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of certain imported parts, if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under 18 U.S.C. § 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.”

These parts are tabulated below:

(1)   Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings.
(2)   Barrels.
(3)   Barrel extensions.
(4)   Mounting blocks (trunnions).
(5)   Muzzle attachments.
(6)   Bolts.
(7)   Bolt carriers.
(8 )   Operating rods.
(9)   Gas pistons.
(10)   Trigger housings.
(11)   Triggers.
(12)   Hammers.
(13)   Sears.
(14)   Disconnectors.
(15)   Buttstocks.
(16)   Pistol grips.
(17)   Forearms, handguards.
(1   Magazine bodies.
(19)   Followers.
(20)   Floor plates.

Because certain AK-type semiautomatic rifles are currently prohibited from importation, the assembly of such rifles using more than 10 of the above imported parts is prohibited under § 922(r). However, assembly of AK-type semiautomatic rifles using 10 or fewer of these imported parts is not prohibited under this section.

With respect to the questions in your letter, we will answer them in the order they were posed, as follows:

Question 1: Would modifying a Saiga rifle by replacing the existing buttstock with a ‘thumbhole style” stock result in a rifle prohibited from importation under Title 18 USC, Section 925(d)?

Answer: Yes. if your Saiga rifle is assembled using more than 10 of the imported parts in the above-cited 922(r).

Question 2: With reference to the parts listed in Title 27, Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), Part 478 (formerly Part 17, section 478.39(c): Is thumbhole style stock counted as a buttstock, as a “pistol grip”, or both?

Answer: Both: The “thumbhole stock” about which you inquire is considered a combination of a pistol grip and a buttstock, therefore counting as two parts with reference to the parts listed in 27 CFR § 478.39(c) (formerly 178.39(c)).

Please note that the above answers are applicable to .223, 7.62x39mm, and .308 calibers.

We thank you for your inquiry and trust that the foregoing has been responsive to your questions.

Sincerely yours,

Sterling Nixon
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch

Ok, so without getting beat up and just for the sake of the conversation.  What about this type of skeleton stock??

http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/images/stock.jpg

It's not a thumbhole stock but it does have that "grip" piece on it.  Where does this type of stock fall into the mix??  

The ATF see's it like this regarding fixed stocks:  Non-pistol grip and pistol grip.  If it looks like a duck it is a duck.  There is no distinction in the ATF's eye's between a thumhole/dragunov and pistol grip.

Quoted from the ATF letter:
"The “thumbhole stock” about which you inquire is considered a combination of a pistol grip and a buttstock"